1. So, the narrative that you’re pushing now isn’t that CG saw the letters and immediately “knew” that they were fake, but rather than Adnan never gave her the letters?

  2. It is a mystery of the case when they were actually written. Could even be much later written letters.

  3. So to summarize, any of the claims that support Adnan, you simply attribute to among other things, the defense grasping at straws. On the other hand, any of the claims that do not support Jay, you find rationale to support why they are false.

  4. But you don't have any support of that. It's conjecture, not what was said or happened. Adnan's words on Serial was that at lunch he went over to Jay's house to give Jay the car so he could buy Stephanie a present.

  5. Sarah asked him about his experience with his lawyer. He had support from Undisclosed who could tell people his wants since Rabia had access to him. Has Rabia complained?

  6. So if it wasn’t said on Undisclosed or in Serial, Adnan couldn’t have thought it or expressed it at some point?

  7. It's a very important point. And Sarah asked Adnan about the day and he didn't say anything besides it was normal

  8. First off, anything any of the primary people involved have to say about this case at this stage of the game should be met with immediate skepticism. That applies to AS, that applies to JW, that applies to any of the main witnesses. Why now? Why not sooner? Why to the public instead of the investigators at the time? Why not to the courts where it would have mattered? Why wait until after the trial was over and dead? Maybe there are answers to that, but I'm going to need those answers, leaving it unsaid is no bueno.

  9. I don't think we would mind if Adnan finally grew a pair and admitted he strangled Hae.

  10. It is the time after the murder but before the burial. Apparently, either being mistaken or lying about where they smoked weed during that time is enough to negate the material facts for some people.

  11. So the argument is that Jay picks up Adnan from school and then they go and smoke all night?

  12. I think everyone involved was happy to pretend none of that ever happened

  13. Suppoedly she cares about Adnan so her not testifying in 2012 would mean like a possible extra four years in prison for him.

  14. To be fair, this was before she had a supernatural nighttime visit

  15. She should have asked Hae's ghost to make an appearance in the court house while she was testifying.

  16. Yep. Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny don't have alibis for that time. The tooth fairy works later in the day. Maybe Keyser Soze used Jay as his patsy.

  17. Interesting regarding the forehead. Thank you! Yeah with the autopsy report I struggle with what they mean when they say say anterior “surface of the body”. That sounds broad to me but I don’t know. Then later when they say it is prominent in the face and chest is it adding specificity to the surface comment or just giving details about that area? I just don’t know. The autopsy is frustrating is several ways for me.

  18. You are right that it sounds broad. It's specific up top because the lividity is very strong in the face and chest and then it's strong mid way through the right side and then gets lighter. It's light through the stomach region so it's not prominent there. But the lividity is on the front and not the back, so that's why the front is used. But if she was lying flat on her front then the prominence would stay in the stomach and lower region, but it doesn't.

  19. It all depends on the slope of the hole Hae was buried in. If her upper body was at a lower gravitational potential than her legs, then the blood would settle in her face and chest, which just so happens to be exactly where the autopsy reports lividity was most pronounced.

  20. I agree on principle, but I need to understand the viscosity of the blood in the whole body to understand it complete. For example, if you had a body that was at 45 degree angle upward and the face being the lowest, would only lividity show up in the face or is it trace along the path? I don't know.

  21. Something simple at the time. A ride back to school after he talked with Hae.

  22. The state had evidence and withheld it. The accused does not have a constitutional obligation to produce brady materials, that’s the state’s job. They didn’t do it.

  23. And if Adnan himself knows that Bilal had that threat in mind, then there is no Brady material either. A full investigation of the events needed to be done but Adnan got lucky Phinn was asleep at the wheel and just wanted to celebrate a celebrity.

  24. This isn’t agree/disagree. It’s facts and scientific technology. You can no longer use cell phone tower as an absolute location determination.

  25. You are looking at it backward. You need to look at it from the coverage of the tower, not the phone. The phone would actually work in the opposite direction. The tower may be able to cover X ground, but the phone itself may not be able to use the whole X ground. The fanciest newcell phonescan't use a tower in Baltimore from Kansas

  26. I’m not. The tower doesn’t look for phones . The phone looks for towers. It is not helpful to argue facts. If you want to do the research please do. Otherwise I think you like to argue. Facts are facts. Science is science.

  27. Of course the phones look for the towers. But for a phone to use a cell tower it has to be in the coverage area of a tower. We are talking about the coverage area of the tower.

  28. Thanks. Asia would have potential for a lot if she came out and said she made it up.

  29. What 6 years? She was never called to testify. The judge didn’t see Gutierrez’s lack of follow up as inadequacy of counsel. Adnan’s conviction was initially thrown out based on the cell phone tower evidence alone.

  30. I got 6 years from the penalty for perjury. Though maybe I am off on penalty for perjury. Plus five years for accesssory after the fact which could be the penalty for falsifying an alibi for someone.

  31. Wow, that’s really poor quality, even for chatGPT. Factual errors and logical errors abound.

  32. I think it shows the framework is not good for making a decision on this case.

  33. No, you are making assumptions that I am not. A) that he would be earning Adnan’s favor by killing Hae and b) that that would be his motive. Additionally, I would hardly say his only block to getting into Adnan’s pants would be that he was in a relationship. I am not sure why you feel those are sole reasons he would feel a need to kill Hae.

  34. You do need to come up with something believable and that's the problem. It was more believable when Adnan and Hae were dating and she got in the way.

  35. For you maybe. To me that isn’t very believable bc the idea that Adnan would just suddenly be open to advances from Bilal if Hae wasn’t in his life romantically is absurd. Now if the idea is that, realistically that may be true but Bilal may not have been thinking that way, well that’s no more believable than killing someone bc you are jealous or bc they hurt someone you are obsessed with. Those aren’t even the only possible motives, we don’t know what else there could be that we aren’t aware of-maybe Bilal did try something and Adnan told Hae and she convinced him to tell someone about it and Bilal was angry that he did so. I always say we don’t know what we don’t know. Apparently there is still a outstanding threat toward Hae from Bilal that was found in the prosecution files we are unaware of-remember they found two and Urick only leaked the one.

  36. It's not what Adnan has to believe would happen, it would have to be what Bilal would feel would happen if he eliminated Hae. You kill for love, money, anger, in your case keeping a secret. But Adnan would know that secret and that he told Bilal. Adnan would be the one telling Bilal that he told Hae about Bilal being gay for example.

  37. And most importantly, all while assuming Adnan didn’t have an alibi. The whole conspiracy is extremely stupid if Adnan could account for any of his time during the afternoon/evening.

  38. Yep. Just have Jay meet Adnan at school and as he pulled up he saw Adnan srangle Hae and Jay leaves. Not sure what time.

  39. I do know the answer and I've told you many times what it is already. It's a logical fallacy. It's an appeal to ignorance.

  40. He's asking for an analagous case to what happened here. That's not a logical fallacy. People have tried with the Taylor case, or the Bryant case. But it's bigger than that. He's just asking for an example.

  41. So you think it was planned, and the plan was to kill her somewhere and then meet Jay somewhere else? And neither of those places was Best Buy? Or just the first location was Best Buy and Jay picked him up elsewhere?

  42. No. I do not think it was planned murder. But Adnan and Jay were supposed to meet somewhere.

  43. If Jay got the Best Buy location based on where he was supposed to meet Adnan or because of where he went that day— then why would he say the cops fed it to him?

  44. Several things. One I don't think he was supposed to meet Adnan where Adnan killed Hae. Second possible reason is Jenn could have learned it on her own through grapevine, though small chance. Or that Jay and Jenn talked about it, but they didn't decide for sure but Jenn ran with it. Or Jay just forgot why they picked Best Buy and wasn't important to him for 15 years. You don't remember every conversation you have.

  45. https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/dec/29/jay-wilds-serial-adnan-syed-npr

  46. It never says he was arrested for dealing. Adnan blackmailed him with the problem of his drug dealing so Jay would help Adnan bury the body.

  47. That’s a good question, I’m not 100% sure… sorry. I’ll try to find the article. And it wasn’t just a joint, Jenn confirmed that they sold weed. I’ve seen a few of her interviews.

  48. Yes they sold weed. But Jay hasn't been caught for selling weed.

  49. If you think Kristi did change her mind, where are you fighting so much that Feldman didn't get an affidavit from Kristi?

  50. A prior statement, such as one made in a documentary, might be admitted under a hearsay exception if it was used to impeach the testimony of a witness.

  51. With the major caveat that documentaries edit their footage to put things in he light they want. So the judge would have to compare the statement of Kristi now with what she said on it and then figure out if there was an issue. But if Feldman was so confident that Kristi knows that she had the wrong night, then get her affidavit and call her to court to express that opinion. The issue on this one is that Kristi could easily be blindsided by the question and then after thinking she remembered why she missed the class or she remembered that it was Stephanie's birthday when they came over.

  52. I wish they had shown more of the Best Buy with where the entrance was, the side, and the loading dock.

  53. Yea, they showed very little and just narrated

  54. I guess going over everything would take hours. I got to talk to the librarian and one of the teachers at the school before going to the other spots.

  55. Do you have an official source for this? I’m not saying it’s impossible or that it definitely didn’t happen, but I would just like some sort of more formal confirmation. Even a quickly scribbled note by CG in the defense file would be fine.

  56. Important point, I think. Do we know that these trysts at Best Buy ever happened after she started picking up her cousin - which was only in October, wasn't it? Or were they all before that?

  57. Adnan said they would do it before cousin pickup at Best Buy

  58. Jay also testified to thinking he'd see weed in the trunk, tough only at the second trial:

  59. If it wasn't a trial and having to be specific, I would have had Jay expand on that and if he really meant it. Or was it just something he thought later.

  60. Ok sorry it took so long, but I did find out about the trunk of weed. I misremembered the source. It was according to neighbor boy in in his interview with Bob Ruff.

  61. So it's a story through a third person much later? The pronouns were bad in the Urick note, they are even worse here. So I wouldn't put any stock in this story through this third person. The report was that Ernest say the body too and if that one he refers to Ernest then it's a whole different story right?

  62. And Jay will suddenly remember seeing Bilal at the mall, Best Buy, Kristi’s house, Patapsco Park, etc?

  63. Nope. Bilal just gets out of the car and let's Adnan do the dirty work of burying her with Jay.

  64. You can not. It's not possible. All roads to Bilal have a stop over on Adnan Boulevard.

  65. Yep. Even if DNA came back as Bilal's all he would have to say is that he was in the car with Adnan and Hae when Adnan killed her and then call Jay to the stand.

  66. It is a theory, so belief is obviously not 100%. Urick offered to help a key witness for his case, Wilds, find a defense attorney. It was yet another impropriety, thus the question, “why?”, and the subsequent speculation.

  67. If that had been the plan than the State could have done that in March. They charge Jay with accessory and then work with the public defender to get the plea. Urick didn't need another attorney for that. Jay inadvertenly forced Urick's hand in September.

  68. It doesn't hurt him because he can just say I saw the victim and the morning and DNA transferred.

  69. I've joked it in the past that if you want to completly understand the timeline of that afternoon and evening you would need to lock yourself in a monastery for years and you still may not come out with knowing. I think we can know about 70%(the part that overral matters), 20% insider information and then I think the last 10% will be unknowable just because of memory forgetting what happens over 20+ years.

  70. This is still a little new for everyone so we’re all figuring it out but I think there’s a little confusion each I think there’s a little bit of confusion. Each comment should have link to a source such as a document, a blog, an article or another thread. I think the other comment was like because there was no link.

  71. Yes, that’s the point of the info request. It’s not a discussion post. It’s a request for info only so it every comment needs a source to some type of information. These parameters were discussed and decided upon in the discussion thread.

  72. It was a four minute informational call. Adcock wasn' using hocus pocus on Adnan at the time. Adcock just wanted to know if Adnan knew anything about Hae. Adnan was scared because he had a corpse in a car that was his responsibility for getting there.

  73. I mean, yeah, if there's nothing like a solid alibi or proof someone else did it, then you can't "prove innocence" that's why in the courts the burden of proof is on the State to prove guilt.

  74. If someone else did it, there is always a chance of finding the evidence for them, or at least evidence that someone else did it. For example, the unknown DNA on JonBenet's clothes has some doubt that it wasn't someone in the house.

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