Is There Middle Ground?

  1. I love this post. In my opinion, we need people to come together to discuss vulnerably. What are the real underlying issues. Let's not just throw around witty arguments and talking points. Clearly, these can be debated and we get no where.

  2. There's only compromise for "pc" people who are willing to disregard the needs of people who have later abortions. And, as we've already seen, most PL restrictions later turn to further restrictions until we reach near or actual full-bans of abortion. Conceding as a PL-er is usually a calculated choice to ease into less frightening restrictions before issuing further ones, and conceding as a PCer is just enabling this.

  3. I love Americans. This thread is a pure laughingstock. I'm quite happy with how we do it here in Denmark.

  4. Well I'm not going to be as nice as some of you. This 69 year old has put up with the pro life CRAP for 50 years. NO THERE'S NO COMPROMISE OR MIDDLE GROUND. Like someone else referred not your body none of your business.

  5. Honestly? the middle ground would be "don't like abortion? don't have one" but that's still not enough for one party. It's insulting.

  6. The proposition I have is legal abortion for zygotes and embryo without justification and for fetus (after 8 weeks) with justification like rape illness death of the fetus and so on.

  7. If you’re not willing to compromise at all, you run the risk of getting an outcome that’s even worse. Keep in mind that the majority favors abortion rights to some degree and are repulsed when 10 year old rape victims have to give birth.

  8. There is. Religion is crumbling before your eyes. The young ones have woken up and are no longer falling for the tricks religion has been playing on humanity for centuries. This supreme Court ruling shows how terrified the conservatives are. They're clutching at straws to keep their believers. If the supreme court knows religion is crumbling you best be worried too. Those end times you've been dreading are finally here. Except its not quite what you imagined. There is no one to save you from us anymore.

  9. Functionally a compromise would be to focus on economic abortions by providing a robust social net, and to trial this for years to tune it instead of just changing the law more or less as a surprise

  10. It's also difficult to compromise with people who basically operate as a system of diffused responsibility whose purpose is effectively to make rape a viable reproductive strategy so that their antisocial bloodlines can continue to terrorize our descendants til the end of time. How about you fuck them and carry their genes and let them steal yours?

  11. In principle, there is no compromise with people who agree that people should be forced to support someone else's life even at the detriment of their own.

  12. Not really because to most PLs theres really no difference between having an abortion at 1 week and having one at 40 weeks. A compromise might make our side happy temporarily but not forever. The only compromise i can see being agreed to by PLs longterm is only allowing abortion for rape victims or life threats.

  13. Obviously the "no exceptions" crowd and the "on demand for 40 weeks" crowd will never be happy with a compromise, but most Americans are somewhere in between. I think anywhere between six and 15 weeks is reasonable. I'm definitely at the lower end of that spectrum, but most Americans are closer to the middle.

  14. You realize that 4 weeks is the day her period is supposed to arrive, and it is 5 weeks is the minimum before hormone levels are high enough not to cause a false negative on a test (which can actually take another week). So, assuming she has super regular periods and tested a week after missing it, she has roughly 7 days to acquire funds, find an appointment, take off work, etc etc. 6 weeks is the time most women find our they're pregnant, and for those that aren't regular it can be much later. 6 weeks is not reasonable, its basically a total ban.

  15. abortions will still happen whether legal or not, so i will settle for nothing less than safe legal abortions and preventative care for all.

  16. Of course there can be compromise. PL want to standardize arbitrary gestational ages and PC want total freedom (at the extreme ends). So I think determining a cut off period for non-emergency abortions would give fair regulation to that concern. So long as that period is not too narrowly defined or worded in a way that can be misconstrued.

  17. The thing is it doesn't matter if the fetus has personhood or the rights of a fully grown adult, I'm not required to give up my bodily autonomy to keep other people alive. A fetus would need to be seen as significantly more important then any other person for there to be a point where abortion isn't allowed

  18. After how many things PLers pinky promised to not do, why should there be any compromise? They've shown they won't negotiate in good faith, so there should be zero compromise.

  19. Yes, ban abortions after 10 weeks, unless in cases of medical emergencies. Give people a choice but let them make that choice as soon as they find out they're pregnant. Most arguments come from extreme situations that would be resolved with such a legislation.

  20. I think that the middle ground would be giving unlimited access to birth control and protection, as well as making it accessible to everyone and everywhere, as well as much stronger.

  21. 100%. Access to contraceptives and sex education could most likely do more to prevent abortions than any ban that could be thought up.

  22. Humans rights have always been written, discussed and bistowed to born humans only. To retroactively apply that to the unborn is an appeal to definition.

  23. I literally had a friend today tell me that there should be unlimited access to abortion regardless of when the woman wants it regardless of the reason as long as a doctor is willing to provide it so that was interesting today also lost a friend today because they told me they no longer want to talk to me. Anyway my happy medium would hopefully be at least a simple limitation maybe with the max of by the end of the first trimester. Of course with the regular medical issues still being in effect. For instance in Texas as long as there is a chance for a severe physical or mental issue to develop due to the pregnancy the woman is able to get an abortion at any turn outside of that it is maximum 6 weeks which I would push up until maybe 13 to 14 since most happened within that ring. As well as how many times you can get an abortion before you become banned from the process

  24. The middle ground is if you don’t believe in abortions then that’s valid, don’t get one, but your belief doesn’t get to dictate other peoples choices.

  25. I'm willing to make a compromise and allow abortions in the case of child rape if PC's will agree that we can keep abortions banned in most cases outside of child rape and to save the life of the mother.

  26. I see this as pretty barbaric honestly, no other stage of human development has a right over my bodily autonomy. Why should a fetus own my body more then I do?

  27. To be able to come together as equals, there can be no compromising. I refuse to compromise Women’s rights.

  28. It’s not your right to kill a human life, in or outside your womb. To even call it woman’s rights is a cop out. What about the rights of the millions of aborted female human lives?

  29. In an ideal world, the middle ground is supporting women and giving them and their partners access to a well balanced education about birth control, safe sex, health, options, and childrearing. Easy safe access to birth control, consoling, and daycare. Women also get good maternal care, secured paid time off for having kids, can have a birth affordably and therapy.

  30. Yes. Let women do what they need to in ether own lives. Obviously reducing abortions through means of sex Ed and birth control should always be a priority.

  31. Actually the proper way to reduce abortions is access/reducing poverty, not so much sex ed and birth control. Obviously it's still nice for people who just don't want kids altogether, but many people who have gotten abortions actually wanted their babies, but felt they had no choice but to abort. It doesn't take much either, did you know that the stimulus check alone was enough for women to decide to keep their babies? I am pro choice all the way, but I wish there were more organizations to help women keep their babies.

  32. You do realize that roe didn’t restrict but one way right? Casey brought it even further but it allowed states like California nj ny Nevada and Colorado to go all the way to birth with little to no restrictions. It wasn’t until some states started going the other way that it became a problem. For your side y’all sued Mississippi which brought it back before the court. Your side swung too far now the pendulum swings back.

  33. I was going to say this. All they are doing is forcing our hand so we will have to pass legislation at the federal level to guarantee a women’s right to choose.

  34. The middle ground is pro-choice. It’s the in between of the two extremist views of pro-life and anti-natalism. Pro-choice means no one is forced to give birth and no one is forced to have an abortion. Everyone can choose for themselves.

  35. Cool, so if I’m raped I have to go through a bureaucratic nightmare to get it expelled, compounding my trauma, for a right I should have had in the first place.

  36. I would be interested in seeing a true, good faith compromise offer from the PL side that isn’t limited to rape victims and dying women.

  37. I don’t think there is a middle ground. PL will not be comfortable with anyone having the ability to “murder babies” while PC is not ever going to be okay with freedom violations leading to sexual enslavement and rape of women and children.

  38. I don’t think it is physically possible for ‘this can’t happen’ and ‘people can decide if it happens and some will while other won’t’ to compromise the groups are too opposed at their very baseline for anything even minimally satisfying to occur to those even minorly following the very base ideas.

  39. I disagree. The right to choice should have been solidified in a more tight case than Roe. Roe being overturned so easily is definitely an example of something broken

  40. Perhaps an amendment to the constitution putting protections in place for all forms of birth control, requiring that they cannot be made illegal or banned in any way, but also requiring that medical insurance must cover any birth control methods which are allowed in the US and which cannot result in the death of a conceived zef, and further cannot be required to cover forms of birth control which can result in the death of a conceived zef. This protects the right to birth control but also protects against anyone besides the government/taxes being forced to pay for birth control methods which might kill a conceived human.

  41. I’d be okay with “abortions are fully legal, private affairs between a woman and her doctor. You are fully entitled to refuse to communicate with or otherwise disagree with people who you happen to find out got or performed one, including not inviting them to your birthday party.”

  42. Yeah… we had one. It was called roe vs wade. If you didn’t want an abortion you just didn’t get one. Seems like a pretty good middle ground to me, anyway.

  43. Yes, but the main question I’m asking is if there is a way for both ProLife and ProChoice supporters to be happy? Is there a way to compromise.

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