[Sherman] McKenzie Gore, CJ Abrams, Robert Hassell III, James Wood and Jarlin Susana plus Hosmer (3-$39M after this season) to Wash for Soto/Bell. That is probably the most substantive deal in deadline history

  1. Padres: What if we gave you worse prospects than the Cardinals, took your second best player, gave you our worst player, and also had you pay him even more?

  2. Yeah the Bell Hosmer thing is what throws me about this but I don’t think the prospects are clearly worse than a realistic Cards offer

  3. They could also value the padres players higher than the cardinals. There’s no set value for prospects, some teams think more highly of certain players.

  4. Cards fans are out of their fuckin mind if they think any Cards spec besides Walker is worth more than Wood, or Hassell, or Abrams, or Gore.

  5. I did it earlier, it’s ugly: 171.30 value from Soto and Bell, 108.30 value from the Padres package

  6. Just get Soto in free agency. If the FO isn’t confident they’ll be able to do that, no need to trade 4-5 top prospects imo.

  7. I actually think him being a dodger might be better. We werent competing with the dodgers for a WC spot AND they were already good, Soto doesn't vastly improve them

  8. This is at least equal to whatever our best offer was going to be. I didn’t see anyone in this sub saying we should give up literally everyone between Walker Winn Carlson and Gorman.

  9. I know a lot of Cards fans will disagree, but I think I prefer Gorman, Walker, Carlsen, Winn, Hence over 2.5 years of Soto. That group should be the core of this team for the next decade.

  10. I still say our entire presence in this was to make sure that whichever team paid the most would pay more than if we weren’t in the running—and that it would have been a bigger win for us if the Dodgers had paid up.

  11. The deal is for a major league player, if Hosmer says no they will get someone else off the roster. The deal is done, Soto is not coming to STL.

  12. will they release that? I wasn’t sure if we’d ever know. I just knew DC was a dealbreaker when paired with other prospects

  13. I can understand if they weren't willing to deal Walker. But if they were willing to deal Walker and Gorman and got caught up on including Carlson I'm gonna be upset. For the life of me I can't see what everyone sees in Carlson. He's a fine player, but he seems like a guy on a Dexter Fowler trajectory. His stat line over two years is thoroughly average with tools that are pretty average across the board.

  14. I live in Kansas City, you guys don't know what it's like to lose and lose bad every year but 2 in the last 30. I love that the Cardinals are competitive every year. Would I like to win the Series every year, of course. But people who say they hate being in the playoffs every year and not winning it all, you have no clue what how miserable it is to be shit every year. Unless of course you were a Csrdinals fan in the early to mid 90s.

  15. I mean we didn’t want to part with walker. I think that’s pretty much the beginning middle and end. Also, it wouldn’t make sense for the Padres to give all these prospects and then for them to come to us and only want 2-3

  16. Seems official now, right? Feels painful that with Tatis coming back, the Padres are going to be very tough to beat.

  17. I dont blame the Cardinals at all but this is also why I never get invested in the trade deadline or FA at all.

  18. So are we going to make any other moves or are we just grabbing 2 decent pitchers and hoping for another 17 game winning streak to close out the regular season?

  19. Better salvage this with at least one of Rodon/Lopez/Syndergaard. Even Martinez/Eovaldi would be better than doing almost nothing. Very frustrating, seems standing pat for the most part and sliding into a wild card game is the goal the last few years. Enough moves to stay competitive but not enough to be pushed over the top.

  20. That's basically always been the plan for Mo and company, not just for the last couple of years. Do the bare minimum possible to keep fans coming through the gates, angle for an outside shot at a playoff run, get bounced by a superior team, rinse, repeat. Meanwhile, roll around in the Scrooge McDuck money your 'small-market' team brings in.

  21. Best thing now would be for it all to fall apart. Padres have an unhappy roster, Nationals have an unhappy roster and we just stand there smirking.

  22. Just wish the ownership would put more money in this team so we could make significant trades with our farm sometimes. What are we like 50 million under the tax? Plus you have molina, wainwright, and pujols all leaving. If our ownership would just put money in the off-season you don't need to "overpay" with your prospects during the trade deadline. What I see here is people making excuses for a billionaire who said that owning a MLB team isn't that profitable. Especially when he bought the Cardinals for 150 million and now there estimated to be worth about 4 billion. Just my 2 cents.

  23. This is fake news. I was informed last week that the Cardinals management team flew to D.C. to finalize a trade for Soto and not for any other reason. I was downvoted and called clueless for telling people that Soto was going to be playing in California and that the management meeting was probably to explore all trade possibilities, especially any involving starting pitching. There's no way that many armchair GMs could have been wrong.

  24. year after year we try to convince ourselves why it was a good idea for the FO not to go all in at the deadline. And year after year we are a fringe wild card / above average team that is not good enough to win it all. I'm so sick of the perpetual mediocrity

  25. I just don't think it's that much. Gore hasn't been good a the mlb level nor Abrams. Hassal is great #21 prospect and the others are unranked.

  26. Idk…it seems like the Nats allowed themselves to get royally fucked in this deal and we just stood off to the side going “eh…I’m not really in the mood right now.”

  27. Typical Cardinals not doing shit besides dumpster diving. We love the wildcard or bust mentality. I can see Arenado opting out because we won't make any substantial moves. We didn't want to get rid of Carlson apparently. I love Carlson but look at him and Soto at the same age. Soto is a superstar Carlson is above average at best. I knew this would happen tho told me friend Padres would probably get Soto. Thank God we got another meh pitcher that's gonna be so impactful! Wish I wasn't so disappointed

  28. No way you believe Carlson was the reason it didn't happen. They tried fleecing Cards but took a mediocre deal instead and threw in their second best player for fun

  29. They get the #1 (22 overall), #3 (88 overall) and #14 of the Padres prospect plus a former 6th and 10th overall prospect that graduated to the MLB level already. For the a generational talent and a massive upgrade at 1st. Fuck man we definitely had a better package to offer. This sucks, but what are you gonna do?

  30. Hopefully one of Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker, Gorman, or Winn become half a good as Juan Soto by the age of the 23!

  31. Where the hell are all these guys gonna play? Carlson, Walker, Gorman, Winn, Bader, O’Neal, Yepez, Donovan, Burleson, Edman. They can’t get Burleson up right now and he been shoulda got the call.

  32. Why would you reduce it to one of those guys? All of them will be with the cardinals for longer than Soto. There's a really good chance all 4 of them will contribute. Gorman and Carlson already look good. If just one of Walker and and Winn turn out really good this team will be sitting strong.

  33. Cardinals FO totally painted themselves into a corner on this one. While they were playing phone tag with the Nats Montas/Castillo both left the board and we end up with no good pitching AND no Soto. Long story short, don't throw your name into the hat on someone like Soto if you aren't actually willing to pony up, which they clearly aren't. It's a perfectly reasonable decision to not go get Soto, but if you aren't really interested don't play pretend.

  34. Just a thought to consider - let's say that the Nats would have taken whatever deal we offered. If DeWitt refused to sign Soto long term, do you think Mo would still make the deal? Imo, if we couldn't extend Soto (ie if DeWitt was too cheap to pay the man) then I don't think the deal is worth it - mortgaging the future for a short term window in which we still had an uphill battle to make it to a series. Then after two years, Soto is gone, Goldy and Nolan are on the downswing of their career, and much of the young talent we were hoping for is elsewhere and we're stuck.

  35. Yes, trades involving a player of Soto's caliber do not happen often. But man I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up all of our young talent for him, in the same way SD just did.

  36. Randy is 27 and an above average player, that's it. He's not the guy you saw in 2020. This was a completely different situation

  37. Face it fellas it’ll never be the Cardinals that makes these trades. Cardinals take older established veterans and trade away young talent for them. They will never trade prospects for young proven talent literally ever.

  38. You're right, they'll never be the one to make these trades, which is why they shouldn't have been throwing their name into the mix in the first place. They wasted their time playing pretend on Soto and have ended up with nothing to show for it.

  39. Why are y'all acting like there's some sort of conspiracy against the Cardinals? If they had offered a better deal, Soto would be a Cardinal. Love or hate it, your GM was prospect/player hugging Carlson and Walker. If you offered Gorman, Walker, Winn, Graceffo, and Hence then you'd have room to talk. Your GM was bargain shopping for the best trade chip in baseball history.

  40. Well damn, I had gotten my hopes up, this doesn’t seem any better than what we could have offered, screw it, go get some pitching then

  41. Pretty embarrassing for Mozeliak - I understand you can't force another team to accept your deal but Cardinals had better prospects IMO.

  42. We were never going to make this trade. From the first mention it went against Mo’s entire philosophy.

  43. We could have beat this offer in multiple ways. I hope to god it comes out that Rizzo wanted Goldschmidt or something, because if they seriously refused to make a trade to keep Dylan Carlson, it’s organizational malpractice.

  44. I didn’t see anyone in here suggesting a package that clearly beats this. It would have taken nearly everyone discussed

  45. This should be the turning point of Mozeliak as VP and Girsch as GM. In my opinion it was before this but we could have met this value easily and gotten a generational talent to make our team better before a playoff push. Instead our NL central rivals in the Brewers arguably got better, the Padres fighting for the same WC spots and the NL got the same generational talent we wanted, and we got a middle of the rotation guy for our #10 prospect and a young SP.

  46. Mo should've been fired long time ago for trading Gallen and Sandy for fucking garbage Ozuna. Would've had your pitching locked up for years with this those 2 studs

  47. Because MO is smart and didn't give up the farm. With Bader out and on an uncertain time table, we would have had no CF if we dealt Carlson.

  48. Sometimes it’s not what we offered but what the other team was looking for. In this case. The Nats wanted to be hosed. So they chose correctly.

  49. I think the key was padres also getting bell, when we didn’t really need bell at all. Padres could give up more for 2 players when we only wanted 1 of them

  50. I’m not a Mo fan by any stretch - as I believe he would sell his own mother down the river for dividends - but I’m proud he didn’t go all in on Soto. Big contracts almost always bust and rarely pay off for the team. Cardinals need to stick to what they are good at - developing through the farm and let big contracts and egos kick rocks.

  51. I’d say Hosmer shouldn’t waive his NTC but it’s not like that will get Mozeliak off his lazy ass and the Dodgers would swoop in

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