A Tough Pill to Swallow

  1. This. The goal of DnD is to have fun together (and that includes the DM). Think about how your actions affect the other players and the story as a whole.

  2. That is my DM right now, guy is a bit power hungry and just one example of his way of having fun is killing my character "off screen" with three separate d100 roles for an adult red dragon to swoop in and kill my PC at level 3, I am still very salty about it.

  3. Usually everyone else’s fun is at my expense lol. Every friend I’ve played D&D with always wants goofy and silly hijinks with references galore.

  4. This is why a session zero is a good idea for everyone. Talk about all the expectations from both players and the DM. Talk about play styles. Talk about boundaries and what absolutely will not be tolerated in a game that is meant to be fun. It's hard to have the confidence to speak up but try verbalizing anything that is too much to handle, even if it's just in a fantasy universe. If they aren't receptive, then maybe that's not the right group.

  5. Wait, is the rest of the group also playing D&D while masturbating on the bus? Or are you playing online, via a Discord app on your phone or something? Jesus Christ, what kind of monster just sits on public transport and talks loudly on their phone for a few hours?

  6. Yup. I just had to leave a group because I felt my play style was not compatible with theirs and I just wasn't having a good time anymore. I really tried but in the end, it just wasn't the group for me & I'm know that it was a problem within me. They can fully still have fun, I will too with another group.

  7. Agreed. And the DM should always have the right to eject a player who consciously and continuously ruins the effort and enjoyment of others (including the DM). Disrespectful players need to shape up or gtfo.

  8. I dunno, if you drastically lower HP, add a sanity meter, make combat encounters almost always result in death after more than 4 rounds, delete most class abilities and races, you are kind of playing D&D wrong because you're playing Call of Cthulhu

  9. Yep, there are a lot of systems out there. They're all viable and many of them are absolutely better than D&D in some aspect. Once side to this idea is that what the table wants to do might be better served by a different system. Though D&D is pretty flexible and if that's what you know, and no one wants to learn something new, then yeah... homebrew D&D into what you want it to be.

  10. Because there is a loud minority that doesn't think so. Or how about all the posts shitting on murderhobo parties?

  11. Maybe it's common in the community overall, but there are a lot of posts/comments on the DnD subreddits that say the opposite. Stuff like:

  12. Look at the top comment telling OP there is a wrong way to play, and all the people downvoting anyone who disagrees. The community says it's their prevailing view, but that's clearly not true. A lot of people in this very thread are having an extremely hard time swallowing this pill right now in front of you.

  13. I completely agree, albeit with a small caveat. There is a wrong way to play DnD; when you are actively making it less enjoyable for the players around you. Other than that, go fucking nuts. Everything else are details, as long as everyone at the table is having a good time

  14. Like having a DM who hates you because he or she has the hots for your SO. And does not allow you and your char to be able to play the game.

  15. The point you were trying to make should have been one that is often brought up in board game forums: "there is no wrong way to have fun", and that one I am in complete agreement with.

  16. If the game is an edgy violent, realistic game. Playing the goofy third wall breaking monk is absolutely wrong. The other players are going to hate you.

  17. I do have to say, that depending on the play goal of the group, it is possible that D&D isn't the RIGHT game for you. While yes you can mold D&D into roughly anything. And there is enough homebrew, flexibility, rules fiat etc to do roughly anything. There are simply other games out there that might facilitate the kind of play you are looking for better.

  18. Suggesting is fine, but that's where it should end. I've had people get aggressive at me on here when they suggested another table top and I said cool, but no thanks, this group I'm playing in is having fun with a modified 5e.

  19. There is no wrong way to play, but there is a wrong place and time to play a certain way. You need to play in a way that is suitable for your group and doesn't come at the cost of the fun of the rest of your group

  20. I think you're confusing the full class of TTRPGs for DnD. Not everything in the former falls into the later.

  21. If the rest of the party thinks it's cringe tho please don't try to turn every RP moment into some anime shit

  22. I run a high-power, cinematic D&D game that I always feel would get crucified in these forums. But we're having a blast, so it's all good.

  23. Ok I agree absolutely with the different strokes for different folks argument, but there IS a wrong way and that’s when you’re playing and interfering with the rest of your group’s fun, ie murderhoboing when your DM is a heavy role play person, stealing from the party even after the others get mad at you in and out of character, killing the party pet, introducing ridiculous rules, etc.

  24. Yes, but this is not a one player game. This is a game played between multiple people, who should all be having fun at the table. And like any multiplayer game, there needs to be rules, boundaries, expectations, and respect. If any of those are violated, and if anyone at the table is not having fun, the game is being played wrong.

  25. The caveat here is consensus. The table must agree. Rocking the boat just to make wave will have you looking for a new group in short order

  26. There is a way to play it wrong - when your players are no longer having fun or are made uncomfortable. Depictions of rape, taking agency away from players, etc. For most groups - just dont do it. If you plan on any actions that would "cross the line" - double and triple check in session 0 that your players are ok with this.

  27. The only way to play D&D wrong is if your players are having a bad time because of bad DM calls- not talking about DM mistakes, those happen and sometimes an encounter just falls flat, but when you're actively being antagonistic in a way that's shitty to the players. (And it goes both ways, players, don't be shitty to your DMs. We're people too.)

  28. tougher pill to swallow - sometimes your character concept is extremely cringe filled, poorly played, and destroys the focus or immersion of the rest of the group. depending on the group you chose to join, you can very well bring a character that is not "playing it right"

  29. Yeah, yeah, we all know that. The real issue is when people with different playstyles find each other and that happens way too often.

  30. An excellent point. I also appreciate you calling out Wizards too. There's nothing inherently wrong with the playstyles they promote, but they don't get to exclude other styles in pursuit of them.

  31. Nothing in this post remotely controversial, even the statement about WotC, but the fact that a lot of redditors think that it is explains almost of the fruitless drama that pops up on this subreddit from time to time. Nothing listed here qualifies as a tough pill to swallow; it’s literally in the rule book, and has been for decades. Why don’t people read?

  32. Can I min-max and roleplay? Honestly Reddit always makes me feel like the 2 are mutually exclusive. Yes my celestial sorcerer/celestial warlock owlin, is a healing, spell slinging, fuck you DM machine, but also I gave him a super fun story with a dash of Ironman style arrogance so that I can enjoy playing his smug butt in RP too. Before I get roasted, I don't hog limelight the most important thing I learned from the CR team is how to shut up and let others shine.

  33. Well, of course there is a wrong way to play D&D. That's playing it in a way where everyone doesn't have fun!

  34. There are wrong ways to play dnd. If you are not having fun. Or if your fun is at the cost of the rest of the group.

  35. yeah me and my friends use to play a little when we were younger and the combat was super super simplified but the roleplay was much heavier, I'm sure loads of people would get mad if I told them how we played lol

  36. True. I think "play with your friends and maybe avoid weird strangers on the internet" is also a good mantra.

  37. Sooo I'm probably the world's worst DM. I don't know all the rules and simple math is the bane of my existence. But I'm the only one who cares for storytelling and building maps and all the other creative stuff. My players love my oneshots and don't mind helping me along the way. We make it work and still have lots of fun ✌️

  38. I'm all about stepping out of your usual style to try something new and different, but at the end of the day, play how you want to play. The only wrong way to play is if you're making someone else's experience not fun. Then you may want to consider if you're at the right table.

  39. the thing is, there is a wrong way to play with your group. If your group has a specific tone, and your tone is antithetical to that tone, than it doesnt work. If you are trying to DM a game style that your players clearly aren't into, then that's the wrong way to play with that group.

  40. 90% of our combats are theatre of the mind, initiative rarely taking place in the quick brawls. It always begins with a table flipping, a mug being thrown at someones head or something to do with fucking chickens,

  41. I like to say, "As long as you're being respectful of one another, there's no wrong way to play" there are incompatible play styles though and someone dropping out of a group or groups not being a good fit are common and that's totally fine too.

  42. Sure, but they always call it a horror story and then tell only their side of the story and I'm quite sure inventing things as well.

  43. I get the sentiment, and I get a lot of pushback when I say this, but that's not true. There are several right ways to play and many many wrong ways to play. DnD is a system of rules that constitute the game. This is what makes it different from Pathfinder, Harn, previous editions, or even black jack. These rules are important to the integrity of what DnD is. There are many many ways to slightly alter these rules and still play the game, but it's nonsense to say that there is no wrong way to play.

  44. Honestly, I think a lot of the problems in D&D, both in community and game design, comes from a lack of fundamentals acceptance of the ideal that there is no wrong or right way to play, and I wish more people would realize as such, ESPECIALLY when it comes to game design.

  45. The wrong way is if anyone in the group is being mean/cruel/hateful or in some way being a bad person towards the other players. Intentionally causing emotional harm to the other players would be considered a dick move and very much the wrong way to play!

  46. If you strip away the combat, stats, or a sufficient number of rules I wouldn’t say it’s a “wrong” way to play? But it certainly stops being dnd after a certain point.

  47. If what you want to play doesn't fit well within the D&D 5e tropes, prepared campaign settings, existing official player races, or mechanics, there are a bunch of other TTRPGs which D&D spawned. Experiment with those! Gamma World, call of Cthulhu, superhero games, space opera games, steampunk games, Star Wars.

  48. Im playing with a dm that is does completely Homebrew stories and sessions littery everything is homebrew classes, world, story been running fot years and its fun I've never really played atuall dnd before so the way he does it makes things way less confusing.

  49. Not to mention the book literally says that no matter what, DM word is law, meaning that it doesn’t matter what the books say, it’s up to those playing to decide how it goes, assuming you have a good DM

  50. I'm in my first long term campaign and my whole group just smokes a blunt and acts like a bunch of psychopaths our dm loves it

  51. There may be no wrong ways to play, but there most certainly are better ways to play. Meaning the're always ways you can make the gameplay more smooth or seamless and exciting even.

  52. I agree with your overall point, no one’s gaming table should be shamed for how they play. I do think though for much of the discussion around DnD and tabletop games, you really should ask yourself “why are you even playing dnd?” I don’t mean it in an antagonist way but genuinely for many groups there are different games and systems that would be more apt to what they’re doing. You certainly can have a game where you completely free form the rules and hand wave stats and numbers, but that really is quite a ways away from what dnd is as a game. If you’re going to do that there’s no need to even pigeonhole yourself into DnD at this point just call it whatever you want and take the inspiration from where you want. I’m sure this experience could be an absolutely great time but it’s not DnD in my opinion.

  53. Where do you find a group and dm that want to play exactly how you do? If you can do this you fucking won d&d. You should start a business that groups players together in perfect parties.

  54. WotC’s authority, such as it is, comes entirely from the fact that the content they put out is (usually) playtested more thoroughly than any homebrew content and thus more balanced (in theory). D&D itself is practically open-source at this point. The trademark just dictates where the money ends up.

  55. There is no right way to play a game and if what you are doing is fun that’s great! But if somebody else is looking for recommendations because they think there is potential for more fun that’s fine. WoTC sets rules for DnD which is nice because with set rules a group can choose what system to run and it automatically sets expectations about how a game is going to run. It’s also nice because making interesting challenges can be difficult, and when you look at DnD balancing may not be perfect but the heavy lifting is already done. Probably more helpful then following the rules is figuring out what makes the rules good ideas in some situations. And maybe learning some new ways to create effects in game may even increase your fun. Who knows! When people on this sub give advice it’s because they believe there is potential for increased fun, not necessarily that what you are doing now is not fun.

  56. I DM for a party of: A street ninja vampire hunter with an eldritch entity in her head, and a vampire girlfriend. A cyborg werewolf with drug issues and a literal bloodlust. A depressed, gay, changeling nobleman with Jesus powers. A warlock who is actually in love with their patron (who is also gay). A teenage Scourge aasimar barbarian with two mothers, her biological dad is a chaotic god of vengeance that wanted someone to do their work for him. And a pansexual robotic Anubis with boobs and a harem.

  57. When you wield those experiences as a cudgel to attack criticism, it's a wrong way. Know a guy who starts his munchkin campaigns at level 13 and likes to interject my discussions with another long-time RPG aficionado with "Well why not just change the rules of 5e to work with that?" As though the very concept of having a good ruleset that supports the events and roleplay is abhorrent.

  58. So… does the deaf nonbinary queer lizardfolk have breasts and is in a wheelchair, or does the lizardfolk have breasts in a wheelchair they just have with them?

  59. There is a right way to play: having fun together. Not having your fun come at the expense of others. Not allowing toxicity to weed itself in a group. Etc etc.

  60. Yeeeesh, that's the easiest pill to swallow my friend. The hard pill to swallow is when you comment something very RPish and get bombarded by rule lawyers saying it's impossible because on page 184 of suplement number 17 there's a foot note saying that XYZ.

  61. 5 years ago I got into dnd with my friends. We were just a classic party, elves dwarves humans etc. Since then a few have come out as furries.

  62. This is an amazing list. I'm setting up a game for younger kids to understand the fundamentals of DnD, and this will definitely be a part of the speech I'm giving.

  63. This is all true but this is also the reason why I've never really enjoyed the "Adventurer's League"/pickup game style of DnD. People come in with different levels of expectation and appreciation for the game.

  64. True, this site sometimes is really unkind to posts about players with different ideas or flavors, so long something is fun for you & everyone on your party then nothing else should matter.

  65. I'm going to disagree with you but not entirely. The players shouldn't play whatever they want because there might be the case where that character negatively impacts the DM's world/game. A hyperbolic example would be something like a bard that farts sunshine and rainbows when the DM said it was going to be a gothic horror. I would say that one should play who and want they want as long as everyone is having fun, meaning yourself, the other players, and the DM.

  66. A lot of those players would actually have more fun, and have an easier time finding a game, if they were playing one of the hundreds of other RPGs out there.

  67. How many times a day do we see posts like: My player wants to do X, but it doesn't fit the narrative of my world Or My player is min maxing how do I punish them Or My dm killed my character for doing X!

  68. It’s not about right or wrong for the game: it’s about consideration for your DM or players. Don’t be a dick.

  69. You certainly can complain about it in your game group. If someone is saying and acting out things that upset you, speak up!

  70. There are some things that are objectively not ok. Role-playing rape because your character would do it while the horrified female player is begging you not to is objectively not ok. It is not a valid playstyle. Yes this has happened to me. The DM ruled it was ok because I failed the contested check and was helpless to stop the assault, and it was "funny" and a "joke" to me IRL because it was "good roleplay" because he created a rapist as a character. "I'm nit an ashole, that's just my character" no, you're the asshole who made the character, and the DM is an admissible for allowing it, and it is not, ever, a valid playstyle to sexually harass other players.

  71. Excuse me but this is the internet, the land of me having free speech to crush any dissent without opposition

  72. You don't even have to follow the rules so long as your group is all on the same page about them. If you're having fun you're doing it right. The rules exist assist in the fun, if they're ruining it just handwave the rules away.

  73. A tougher pill to swallow. The PHB and other guides should definitely be used or atleast understood before making your own rules for the game. Otherwise you are literally just playing make believe theater with your friends. Which is fine, but that's not DnD.

  74. I know I'll never play sexual assault D&D, I'll never enslave people in D&D, I'll never play with Nazis or people who want to fetishize Nazis in D&D. So sure, you do you, but some of us have ethics that we won't even touch in a fantasy world.

  75. OK so you've covered the totally trivial case where the entire table is in agreement on how to play. Cool. Very useful.

  76. I see it as this. The only way to play it wrong is to play the wrong style with the wrong players. Otherwise D&D is like jazz, you can do just about anything you can think of and still have things work out fine 😁

  77. I play dnd by mocking people on Reddit, complaining about players, flipping out about new inclusive content, and making shit tier memes.

  78. Idk if it’s all that hard of a pill to swallow, or if Redditors just like getting choked by strangers.

  79. I do think it's core to a lot of debates in the community. Especially with Mercer's homebrew being considered primary and essential by a lot of the new crowd. They don't realize his setting (until very recently) wasn't official at all. And for those folk, homebrew is just as essential and real as the published settings. OP's post picks at this hinge point. Do you believe your homebrew matters as much as dragonlance? To some, they easily say yes. To others, obvious not. However, this post doesn't do anything to further the debate. It remains at a standstill of personal preference.

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