Actually happened today

  1. But the fact is that liberalism was based on a real and near absolute belief and protection of property rights. Fascism was based on highly limited property rights. Who won?

  2. every single large company is under the control of the communist sjws now. we must abolish private corporations, its the only way to stop marxists.

  3. It may be stupid but its far from beating a quote form a popular girl in my class which was like that: "how did russia colonize alaska when it was on the other side of the globe, they should take something closer like india or korea" this enraged the k pop stan girl

  4. Well, they kind of tried to take Korea, and they would have tried to take India if Britain hadn't gotten there first.

  5. So your classmate can be a minister in Russia, as he is of a similar level to Lavrov who said that Hitler was Jewish.

  6. He said Hitler had Jewish blood, *his grandfather was Jewish AFAIK. It is of course still a ridiculous statement. But if you follow the bullshit presumption that something like Jewish blood exists in the first place it at least plays out. It absolutely shows his own antisemitism more than anything though

  7. In high school a friend of a friend actually tried to convince me that Hitler was a communist. I knew he was wrong, but I just found the whole conversation exhausting. I don't know if he still thinks that way, I really hope not.

  8. Alt right media has tried so hard to shift the association of nazi Germany with their politics, to left wing politics. Sadly they've had some success amongst dumbasses.

  9. Yeah I know more than a few people that think Nazis were socialist because it was in the name of the party. Most of the arguments break down with any real look at comparisons between Nazi policies and Marxist/socialist principles. Ian Kershaw’s “Nazi Dictatorship” does a good job discussing these comparisons. The closest people get with this argument is comparing Germany’s war time economy with a controlled economy like in the USSR, but that’s a bad comparison because most wartime economies receive a lot more government intervention.

  10. Had an ‘argument’ with someone over roe v wade on here that just… I don’t have words to describe the stupidity. Like, ignorance is one thing, but not bothering to do your research on a topic you’re actively pushing for and that has the very real chance of hurting millions of people just boggles my mind. That’s a very dangerous combination of apathy and ignorance to the point of purposeful maliciousness. The best thing to do is to just walk away sometimes, as they aren’t interested in being educated, they just want you to agree with the same mouth breather points as them in spite of evidence to the contrary of their ideas

  11. I mean he was from Georgia, and clearly there can be only one place called Georgia and that's in America so that must mean Stalin was American

  12. You should also mention how the FBI had to settle a case about their involvement in the murder of MLK. Not a joke, members of the FBI had sent death threats to MLK. It’s a shame we don’t hear about this shit more when it comes to remembering his life.

  13. I will never understand how people think we're a communist country up here, our pm is literally a cowardly centrist who refuses to do anything most of the time

  14. Hitler railed against Bolshevism as much as the Jews. He hated Communism in general. His view on "Socialism" were more about nationalizing industries than they were about social welfare. Also, Hitler had the SA, which were the Socialists in the Nazi Party, murdered in 1934.

  15. Also here's something funny, Hitler claimed that socialism was an Aryan invention and that the "jews" had corrupted it and turned it into Bolshevism. So the Nazis (National Socialists) were bringing the true Aryan socialism.

  16. One of the main reasons companies supported hitler was because hitler was anti communism and didn't want the working class to be influenced by all the shit that was happening in Russia

  17. Agreed. Even US politics aren't clearly binary. Everything gets looked at on a spectrum but it's really some sort of 14 dimensional blob that you can sort of place groups into in a general location. I know that's hyperbole, but it's how it feels sometimes. Then, throw in the fact that liberal and conservative can mean completely different things depending on the context or country that they're used in.

  18. Although Hitler might've used the name "National Socialist" to describe his fascist movement, and he might've implemented some economic policies that could definitely be considered Collectivist, he was definitely not one.

  19. Keep in mind too hitler was not a capitalist. Fascist have no issue takeing control of economy when they deem it nessary.

  20. Don't the majority of Left-wingers (at least in West) defend Corporatism? At least here in Brazil ,mostly of them have this kind of view

  21. I would further note, far right propagandists like Shapiro, Crowder and Peterson push the “Nazis were socialists” line to push the equally ludicrous assertion democrats are nazis. It works because right wingers want to believe anything bad about the left that they can and most of them are too lazy and incurious to actually find out why Hitler used the moniker “socialist” when in fact he hated socialism.

  22. I dont know about crowder and shapiro because I don't follow their stuff but have you a source for Peterson equating Nazism with socialism? Because I never heard him suggest something like that

  23. Hatred for socialism is one of the foundation principles of Nazism. Hitler believed that Socialism was all a Jewish plot to weaken the Aryans. And Karl Marx ofc was a Jew. Anyone who believes he was a socialist needs to get off pol, touch grass then read an actual book. In that order

  24. IIRC, when "the man who made Charlie Chaplin's mustache infamous," was coming into power in Germany, and had "most" people fooled as to his intentions, there were many prominent Democrats, as well as members of all other parties, that were fooled as well.

  25. He was a "National Socialist". But more importantly however you classify his authoritarianism, the result is the same. Centralized power in the state is always going to be abused and used against the people. That's why decentralization of everything possible is good.

  26. I would award that crown to ANY Republican who continues to call Democrats "socialists" or "communists". I know more that 90% of them have lived through the Cold War and actually know what communism is.

  27. I was going to post "bUt NaZi HaVe "SoCiAlIsT" iN tHeIr NaMe", but someone ACTUALLY put forth this argument in earnest here, soooooo…

  28. Fascism as a concept developed by Mussolini derived from syndicalism which is similar to socialism. The split between the two falls over nationalism, where fascists believe the country should be united via race, where as communists are more globalists. National socialism takes many ideas from fascism but is more closer to collectivism than pure socialism. So while no Hitler was not a communist, he was not a capitalist either.

  29. Hitler wasn't a communist, but he did work for the socialist government of Munich before joining a different socialist group and changing that into the Nazi party we all know and hate. The only crazy part is that socialists actually had control for a time when there was at least one flavor of socialism per city in Europe.

  30. But Hitler was a socialist right? I read the 25 point plan, it seems very socialist like. And socialism is the little brother of communism.

  31. is this a joke? And no... Socialism wasn't communism little brother. Socialism is a practical system to TRY to acchive Comunism... Comunism is a Utopia, it can't exist in our practical world, like any other Utopia.

  32. I read it too. It definitely had socialist leaning with heavy nationalism. Hey, even villains care for their little villain army/workers. Some of their arguments are that sure it WAS socialist before Hitler came in and used the title for his own benefit. But that sounds like they're admitting it was socialist after all.. which is it

  33. Socialists/Communists and Fascists are not the same. However they do share some general ideas, one such example being the importance of the state relative to the individual.

  34. He wasn't as wrong tho. Nsdap did cooperate with german communist party before the night of long knives and nazi takeover of reichtag. Then there's ribentrob molotov pact, and nsdap's ecinomic policies

  35. Yeah, but national socialists have literally nothing to do with socialists, so uhm.,yes they were wrong? Like, extremely wrong.

  36. Er, well, he's not entirely wrong. Hitler "was" a socialist/communist before being kicked out of the German Socialist Party. After that he took inspiration from Mussolini and did the... y'know. The thing. The Jew thing.

  37. Mussolini is who you're thinking of. he was part of a socialist, anti-monarchist party but eventually came to favour war (and WW1) seeing as it would bring for the downfall of monarchies and the old system

  38. So you're saying he was a socialist that just so happened to do politics that we wouldn't call socialist and held beliefs we wouldn't call socialist?

  39. He wasn't a communist, be he was a self-proclaimed Socialist. In an interview that appeared in Liberty Magazine 1932:

  40. I have seen people mix things up from ww2 and ww2 like the christmas truce happened in 1945 according to this guy. Or even some popular girl thought that 'neanderthal' and 'Napoleon' were interchangeable terms, and the same thing.

  41. allright. where do i as a german have to show up with the SS uniform and Wehrmacht Uniform of my ancenstors?

  42. ok, try to have a president who believes that hitler was communist because he is part of the National Socialist German Workers' Party

  43. Well thats pretty rude to call me dumb. If thats whats implied, sorry if not. You dont have to agree but im not dumb. And i never said communist i said socialist. Theyre different as you know. Even marx said socialism is the mid point to communism. And we finally came to a sort of agreement it was fascism and had elements of socialism. But yes anyone who thinks hitler is a communist is a moron or a liar

  44. Every time the topic of the Nazis is brought up with my grandpa, he says that stupid shit and has a grin as if it's some kind of gotcha. Really fucking grating, ngl.

  45. I had someone in my history class who was surprised that Liverpool was on the coast. Normally I wouldn't mind, apart from the fact we were on the outskirts of Liverpool

  46. Well, H. wasn't a communist but before the formation of the Reich he befriended the corporations to support him which he later backstabbed with more socialist policies etc.

  47. OMG we’re learning about Russia in my history class and my teacher mentions communism, this little idiot says “aren’t those the ones allied with the nazis?” Same girl to answer Alexander the Great to the question “Who was the first holy Roman emperor?”

  48. all because he had "socialist" on the party's name HAHAHAHAHAHAH (obviously the Socialist thing was about the people, the society, and not about the Red Socialism as we know. Stop beeing so dumb redditors (I'm talking to people that think that the meme is a joke because he wasn't a communist but a socialist. There is a bunch in this comment section))

  49. That's because neo fascists are trying to paint Hitler as a commie so they can insult people by calling them Hitler and still uphold their ideology. The same way Stalin made everyone who failed him a "fascist or counter revolutionary" no matter how red they actually were. Also why even fox now is saying Hitler wasn't a fascist

  50. When will people stop comparing a social policy to an economic one. It doesn't make any sense. Fuck both sides of this dispute. Hitler had socialist economic policies and Stalinism was fascism x 100.

  51. He wasn't a communisnt, but he was no free market defensor either. He created state regulated corporations to decide salaries, he froze prices, he favoured protectionist policies and he gave a stimulus check to every German

  52. I can see the connection to socialism, as fascism can be seen as socialism for just one ethnic group. There’s even the argument that fascism is rooted in socialist tenets. Both fascism and socialism are highly collectivist ideologies. Socialism is concerned with the collective of the proletariat, fascism is concerned with the collective of the aryan people, or Italians, or whoever the group at hand happens to be. Class solidarity and ethnocentric pride can look very similar in their execution.

  53. Maybe on the surface, but in practicality there was very limited public ownership of the means of production which is literally the only requirement for socialism.

  54. Not a communist. But a national socialist (Medicare for all, federal job guarantee, a massive welfare state strong unions, state control of the economy while maintaining the semblance of a market and other things lefties only dream of) he was antisemitic and all that, equally militaristic as the USSR, but on economics he was a raging leftie (obviously not a communist tho)

  55. No he wasn't. He put socialists and other left leaning people into concentration camps. All his policies were against the fundamental tenants of Socialism (power to the working class). Hitler was a fascist, that is to say a far right nationalist, who appropriated the name of Socialism to fish for votes.

  56. No, no. He’s more correct than most people are. Hitler wasn’t a fascist. He was a National Socialist building a communist state for his Aryan race. Some nuances for sure so not entirely correct.

  57. Wether or not Nazism was truly socialism doesn't really matter. It's the same argument when people say Soviet Russia wasn't really communist because it doesn't fit their ideolised view of what it would have been like if the "right" people were in control. the fact is hitler used and manipulated the socialist voters to gain power as well as most fascist parties across the world at the time which either proclaimed themselves as Socialist or unionist groups. They did this by exploiting the flaws in left wing ideologies such as identity politics and victim blaming to turn the mass on the elite ( Hitler just made the elite the Jews). If anything at least this shows how the left can be used and manipulated to dark and nefarious ends just like the right. The only issue is we hear alot about how bad the far right can become and how nationalism was used to create Nazi's but nobody wants to look critically at the socialist, left leaning components that were used to help fascist and communist parties rise to power in the 20th century. This is dangerous as unlike conservative parties that are held to a tight leash and rightly called out when they push any far right rhetoric, the same isn't done for socialist parties that go too far and that is why there is a massive issue with far left party politics in America today.

  58. Well... he was a nationalsocialist. So he was socialist. And since socialist and communism are the same thing, he was a communist. (Trying to find a kinda logical explanation for that thing)

  59. Am I reading this right that you're talking from the perspective of this classmate and you don't actually think that Hitler was a socialist or that Socialism and communism are the same?

  60. I mean .... not really a communist ,but Hitler, his collaborators and NSDAP did in fact flirted with the Socialism ,just like Mussolini and neo-nazis still do after 1945. I love this debate

  61. its true actually, in 1919 he did help in the establishment of the Peoples State of Bavaria and there's photos of him at Kurt Eisners funeral. So yes, he WAS a communist. He later became a National Socialist (difference between Marxism, National Socialism and Fascism is that Marxism is International, National Socialism is based on the race and Fascism is based on the nation. Both are economically left and do want to implement/implemented Socialism.

  62. Not as dumb as you think he is - and maybe even smarter than you: A great deal of Nazism actually had elements of extreme socialism/communism in it, and Goebbels actually started out as a communist.

  63. No, they actually had a terrible economy that was only about fueling the war machine. Every strand of industry was turned into weapon manufacturing, which is one of the reasons the German economy was so fucked when the war ended.

  64. I actually do remember hearing that Hitler’s Nazi Germany was closer to a Communism and that Stalin was closer to an industrial Fascist back in high school. I forgot the exact argument as to why, though

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