[Game Spoilers] The Last of Us - 1x04 "Please Hold to My Hand" - Post Episode Discussion

  1. A note on SPOILERS: Untagged discussion of the games is permitted here. For show only watchers who do not want to see game spoilers from The Last of Us Part I and II, use the

  2. I really like how they are extracting key dialogues from the game and filling in the time between events with them I love it

  3. Same. Really feels like the game in that sense, where the normally boring traversal sequences is meaningful as it is when the characters are often the most thoroughly developed through those little conversations

  4. and given how utterly terrifying runners and clickers have been, a bloater is going to be goddamn tank in comparison

  5. I love how the top comment on the non-game spoilers thread is asking about the floor, and on the game-spoilers thread the top comment is knowing exactly what the hell it is haha

  6. I just finished the game last week after finally getting my first playstation console and I gotta admit I think I like watching even more now that I’ve played through part one of the game (currently working on part two)

  7. Part II is truly one of the best games of all time. There are parts of it that I'm dying to see played out in live action. Enjoy!

  8. Love how they have the bad guys of this episode shouting specific names when they find their dead friends. This was a unique aspect of the game as other games of its time didn’t really have enemies show sympathy for fallen companions

  9. Shout out to the actor who played the guy that Ellie shot. It was a small rule but he really knocked it out of the park. You know you are watching a great show when a supporting actor with 1 minute of screen time takes you on an emotional roller coaster.

  10. Totally. I also thought this in episode 1 with the FEDRA soldier who was talking to the young infected boy who showed up at the QZ. She was great

  11. Lots of great shots that made me remember game moments - in particular having Ellie crawl through holes/vents to open doors for Joel. I can’t remember the specific point it happened but the way they matched up dialogue in throwaway moments where Joel yells to Ellie was also very true to the game

  12. yeah that moment with Joel being left outside and awkwardly calling for Ellie while looking around felt the most like the game than anything else in this episode, exact same feeling

  13. That was extremely loyal to the game even if I’m not here for a 1-1 copy. Loved all the callbacks and references throughout from the shootout scene to the car ride. Had a feeling we’d end this one with Henry and Sam. Next ep is going to be FIREWORKS!

  14. I just love how the made sure to keep all the little things that were memorable from the game. Not just the one-liners or whatever, but stuff like the plow on the truck that just says "Run." Like that could so easily fall by the wayside, but its the little things like that that give it the same feel, even if it is just setdressing.

  15. If they manage to keep that up, the Sam and Henry sequence in what seems to become the next episode will be absolutely heartbreaking.

  16. I also liked the little things like Joel hurling Ellie through the air-vent. Ellie only fitting through narrow spaces and Joel having to find a way around. Very on point with the game and done well enough in the show for it to appear natural.

  17. It took me a WHILE to realize that when the raiders were asking "Where's Henry" they meant Sam and Henry. Didn't expect to see them this soon but can't wait to see how their story plays out.

  18. As soon as she said Henry wouldn't let Sam starve I said "we are seeing them already?!" Makes sense episode wise for the show. I just wasn't ready.... I won't be ready. Who can ever be ready?

  19. That’s different from the game, right? I was trying to remember why would they try to find two young brothers.

  20. Teaching Ellie how to properly handle a gun. It's not a rifle but it actually makes sense for them to skip through the stubbornness and replace it with dad vibes because we had enough of grumpy Joel already.

  21. This is probably reaching but underneath the Arby’s sign where it said something about gas, the font was Uncharted’s

  22. They used the detection warning sound of the game on the scene when Ellie was walking towards the guy attacking Joel.

  23. So much gameplay stuff this ep. Ellie even picked up a single bullet, which is how they're usually dispensed on the harder levels. lol

  24. When the pun book came out I was so happy. I loved hearing all Ellie's stupid puns in the game and they had them all the same in the show <3

  25. One of the biggest reasons the show continues to work is because it refuses to fall into the trap of recreating "iconic" gameplay moments that only really work in the game. I think focusing on deepening Ellie and Joel's bond in this episode is smart even if narratively it isn't as emotional as the last 3 episodes. It's an episode that will be seen as stronger within the context of the whole season once it's over.

  26. It’s funny they made Sam even cuter in the hero costume with the face paint and seemingly made him deaf too. They might as well have made him just two days from retirement.

  27. If I had to guess, that moment is likely going to be the last 10ish minutes of the episode. I have a week to build up some semblance of a mental backbone before that, and hopefully it'll be enough

  28. Based on the last scene from episode four, I'm never going to be ready for episode five. I'm going to stock up on tissues.

  29. Damn, that's sad and you're probably right. For some reason I thought she meant the infected she killed in the basement - she had said something like "don't you ever think about how they are real people?".

  30. I’m just wondering if it was before or after she turned. As in if Riley asked Ellie to kill her, or if Ellie had to kill Riley in an act of self-defence right after telling Ellie that she didn’t want to die.

  31. That’s something I’ve been playing in my head for years, because in that moment, you need to factor that Ellie doesn’t know she’s immune yet, and from the “lose our minds and be poetic” line, assuming they did wait, what happened next? Did Ellie ran cause she didn’t turn and refuses to hurt Riley, or did she kill Riley as some form of mercy? Both scenarios gives me the chills, these are all heavy for Ellie.

  32. Just wanna name the artist, Lotte Kestner! Glad they’re paying her back for using her arrangement for Ashley’s version.

  33. A reviewer who saw all episodes said episode 4 is the slowest/ "worst one" if he had to absolutely pick one, so I'd say the rest of the episodes are more fast-paced than this one. That being said, I really did enjoy this episode and the relationship building between Joel and Ellie. It's nice to see the tough-guy shell cracking a little bit. Knowing how their story will end makes every nice moment between the two even more bittersweet.

  34. It sucks when “slow” equates to “bad” for some people. I loved seeing these meditative moments for these characters, it makes the world feel lived in and real. And as you said, the relationship building was so great!

  35. I didn't feel like this one was slow at all. Not in any particular order: Ellie got her first on-screen "kill", Joel entrusted Ellie with the gun, more of her backstory got revealed, Ellie got Joel to laugh, we saw an implied bloater, we saw in just a few minutes that a FEDRA camp got replaced with a totalitarian seeming citizen's militia junta that hunts outsiders (the trap they laid), we got a cool gun battle, we got some funny scenes... Only thing slow was the "oh... it's just part 1 of this arc" realization. I found the episode very engaging, even the slow parts where they were driving.

  36. This was my favorite episode so far. We've done the backstory, and now the focus is finally on the relationship between Joel and Ellie

  37. It’s inevitable that a season’s episodes will wind up being ranked and one episode always has to lose out. That being said, the bar for “losing” in this series is so far away and above what a lot of series achieve as their highest. There’s always that episode that has to serve as an almost course correction to take the story where it needs to go. Those can teeter into being boring but those one absolutely didn’t. We got so many game moments: Ellie with the mag in the truck, the song in the truck, the ambush, Ellie starting to lose her innocence and the introduction of Henry and Sam. If this is the “lowest” point of the series then we are in for a wild ride the next few weeks.

  38. It's interesting how nicer Joel is at this point of the story. That discussion about how Ellie felt shooting a guy is WAY nicer and consoling than Joel in the game who basically said, "Whatever, try not to blow my head off, kid."

  39. I think it's much easier to empathise with a character you're playing in a video game, whereas in a tv-show you need to make Joel nicer... Especially so the audience unfamilliar with the games can connect with him too.

  40. With how fast they have to move the narrative, I think they're "allowing" Joel's character to show the more fatherly side he eventually has with Ellie earlier on. It definitely wasn't as quick or kind in the game but by the end he cared for Ellie as if she was Sarah.

  41. As much as I love the game, the show handled Joel's reaction way better than, "ok I know you're probably traumatized and a little in shock right now, but do you mind taking this rifle and blowing some guy's heads off while I sneak past them? If you don't, I'll die. Thx"

  42. I thought I recognized the voice of that guy with the gray beard! He voiced Tommy in the games.

  43. Thank you! I was thinking “I know that voice but I can’t place it” and went on with the episode. Thankfully the post episode breakdown identified it. I love how they’ve brought people from the games into the show. It’s just an amazing homage to one of the best narrative games ever made.

  44. I keep forgetting about that scene until it comes up. I think I legit repressed it. So fucking depressing.

  45. I’m withholding judgement about Kathleen’s casting until the next episode. I have a feeling that the creators casted a soccer mom type on purpose. I mean….her name is “Kathleen”—very innocuous.

  46. I was iffy about it, too, even though I love Melanie Lynskey and she's done a few dystopian/apocalypse things by this point already. Idk, she seemed out of place here. But then again, these are all just regular people forced to survive.

  47. - I’m still bummed there’s no a “before the end” prologue each week still, that would have been awesome. A limited-series prequel full of a bunch of them or something would be my dream. Like World War Z, but TLOU.

  48. I was thinking the same thing about the human on human violence. In the video game there is definitely plenty of brutal executions involved. I wonder if they’re steering away from that to make the characters more human in our eyes.

  49. It'll be interesting to see this antagonistic group fleshed out - so much of the issues with Fedra and how they treated people were found in random letters throughout the world so it's interesting to get a bit of a deeper look at these people. As Neil says, he loves to humanize his villains. I know some people aren't loving Kathleen as a leader but at the same time, the people who revolted against Fedra would have just been regular ass people (perhaps I am also biased bc I've been crushing on Melanie Lynskey for about 20 years).

  50. Honestly I hope they do a really good job at fleshing out that group, as I kind of liked how little they shared about it in the game, and left it up to you to figure out. A classic tale of an evil system overthrown by the people, only for another terrible group to fill its place. But I'm open to a new approach I think. They haven't disappointed me yet

  51. I like Kathleen so far, she’s so fresh as a villain, well at least to me. Sweet voiced and sometimes her voice cracks but she’s still intimidating.

  52. I kinda miss the gruesome hunters these rebels are replacing though, and the butchered corpse that looks cannibalized Joel and Ellie stumble across

  53. i agree, my friends who have never heard of the game said they've been struggling to understand who everyone is. they said episode three made them really get into it though.

  54. I haven't played the game in well, basically a decade. I don't remember Henry at all... I keep waffling on whether to replay now or later.

  55. In the forest, Joel saying “No one’s gonna find us” and Ellie saying “Okay” mirrors the “I swear” “Okay” scene at the end of the game (which I assume they’ll also do in the series).

  56. STOP IT I WILL CRY RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW. I seriously love that. I am so impressed with how they are developing this from the game. I can't think of any adaptation that has done as good a job as they are. They're doing us game fans so well/proud.

  57. Man people who did not play the game are not ready for The Sam and Henry storyline. Fuck I know what happens and I’m not ready for it.

  58. It legit is going to be Red Wedding style shock, IMO. I kind of wish I didn't know what was going to happen, but I'm glad I do so I can brace for it.

  59. Right? Like I understand needing a quick exit but the scene didn’t have a sense of urgency enough to walk away empty handed

  60. I think it works out well: E5: wrap up the Henry Sam stuff E6: find Tommy, have the big falling out, Joel gets injured E7: left behind E8: cannibal stuff E9: finding the fireflies, the end Just where I’m guessing it will go

  61. I think it would just be too unbelievable if they had more people die or take part in a shootout. I have no clue how many people you killed at this point in the game but the 3 Joel killed this episode is a lot by real world standards.

  62. this just occurred to me watching this episode, and it honestly isn't so much a criticism of the show so much as a criticism of the canon as a whole because it applies to the game as well with the Pittsburgh level, but given how properly paranoid Joel is about the threat of people, I have no idea why he wouldn't go out of his way to avoid cities. It's not like it's a requirement to drive through them, even if it is the straightest shot.

  63. I thought it seemed out of character too, "let's just detour through the city", but I don't remember how it was handled in the game.

  64. My thought was that they can't go too far into the old rural America because they may go too long without coming across something with gas left in it. So they had to stay relatively close to the cities and when the road is blocked he says "fuck it" and takes the risk because he is sleep deprived and not making the best decisions.

  65. Was that Jeffrey Pierce (Tommy from the games) as one of the main goons? Kathleen's number 2 dude with the beard and long hair? Sounds a hell of a lot like him.

  66. This is my one gripe this week. Such a good line omitted. At least we still got the "I've been on both sides" of the ambush dialogue.

  67. So is Ben Shapiro going to be even more pissed off that there were no zombies in this zombie show episode?

  68. i felt the scene of ellie's "first kill" (on screen kill) was executed so well for the show. i liked the scene in the game, but it felt a tad too light-hearted. the gravity of harming someone felt like it took a toll on her in this ep.

  69. I really enjoyed Joel’s “it was either him or me” speech from the game. Hope they can weave that into the show

  70. IMDB says the actors for Sam and Henry are in the show until episode 6, so I'm assuming next episode will end with a cliffhanger (the bite reveal) and the episode after is when *that* horrifying scene will happen.

  71. I don’t think he is. She thinks he ratted out her brother when the previous people were in charge. She and her people rebelled and actually won so she’s hunting down cooperators now.

  72. Yeah I didn't get that either. I was in the middle of posting when the mods locked it. Imo there does need to be a during and post threads. They should just be the same tbh.

  73. I honestly feel like they kind of messed up in the scene of Ellie shooting the guy. In the game, Joel not only is not outright thankful to Ellie, but he’s mad at her for not following his directions. This causes a little bit of conflict between them. Especially since Joel is really starting to kind of see her as a daughter and is trying hard not to accept that so in a way, he’s pushing her away. In the show, he keeps saying how sorry he is and how she shouldn’t have had to go through that. I feel like he’s moving too quickly into the father role when a major aspect of the game was him trying to stay away from that role as much as he could because he couldn’t bear to lose another daughter. Which is a big reason he tries to give her to Tommy. But I feel like they’ve moved to fast with them kind of accepting each other in the show. There really wasn’t that tension between them.

  74. Especially given we only have 6 left... yeah it should be a pretty beefy one. The question is whether the Henry and Sam part will be one episode or two.

  75. I'll go against the grain a little and say I was not a fan of how quickly Joel opened up to Ellie and how apologetic he was about her kill in this episode. I think their reaction in the game made for a more emotional bond with her looking for thanks and meeting Joel's cold resistance. Made it all the more rewarding when Joel had his miniature apologetic moment with a little half apology in the game and finally gave her a gun.

  76. Joel was a dick in the game, but we had a lot more time to make that transition. If he would have done there here, that’s half a season where these two are at odds.

  77. Fun episode. But man, the casting choice for Kathleen is a real head scratcher. Her acting doesn’t really fit the vibe of the show and her voice is off-putting. I find it real hard to believe she is able to lead a bunch of tough raider types.

  78. Haha I kinda love it. Her being so unassuming is unsettling. She comes across as someone who was like your typical neighborhood “Karen” pre outbreak, turned ruthless leader in the apocalypse. Given the fact that this militant group brought down FEDRA in KC, and she clearly has their respect, I’m sure there’s more to her character we’ll find out next episode.

  79. How do y'all feel like the rest of the season will be paced? I'm having trouble figuring out how we are getting all of game 1 if there are 5 episodes left and one is dedicated to finishing this story.

  80. One change this week that I really liked was Joel taking a moment to talk to Ellie about shooting the guy attacking him and telling her it wasn’t her fault and that it wasn’t fair she had to do it at her age.

  81. I want to disagree on Kathleen. She's doing some creepy matriarchal stuff in this episode. First showing concern for the dead, painting pictures of merc outsiders, uttering the name of the boogeyman, then she kills a dude in cold blood, and comes out to utter the boogeyman's name again.

  82. Idk, there's something unnerving about someone with that sort of presence being in a position of power. Makes you wonder what they did to get there.

  83. Was honestly disappointed with this episode. Knowing that this was the one where they got ambushed, I was hoping that they would finally stop holding back and show us some classic TLoU violence - but they didn't deliver at all.

  84. Okay the show is fantastic but was this the first mediocre episode? Not even that low, I’d say it was good while everything else has been excellent. But having played the game and anticipating this to be an action heavy episode, I was a bit disappointed. Like, it’s good to humanize some enemies but did we really need to get to know these people? I was really hoping to watch Joel just run through some cracked out raiders. Oh well. It was nice to see Ellie and Joel finally warming up a bit, and I am excited for Henry/Sam and the bloater. Maybe I will get what I want next week?

  85. I’ve spoken to a guy who’s seen the screeners and said this episode is the weakest but still pretty good, we’ve obviously played the game but a lot of people I know who haven’t and are watching want to see more Joel and Ellie, since there’s no gameplay in this show they need you to fall in love with these characters for the story to work, this episode is that, setting up plot lines and bonding the characters, he said it all pays off

  86. Melanie Lynskey is an amazing actress, but she seems like a weird casting choice for Kathleen. The character really doesn't look hardened by her surroundings and doesn't seem to fit her group.

  87. Wonder if they accidentally got the game spoilers and non spoilers threads mixed up somehow. Risking spoiling thousands of people on the show would definitely be severe enough to purge it entirely

  88. This was definitely an Ellie and Joel bonding episode, and as much as I loved the last episode, this bonding sesh was 2 episodes in the making.

  89. Don't get me wrong I love the show but I feel like they're making Joel too soft too fast. They've known each other for less than a week now, I want their relationship to feel more earned

  90. I think it's almost necessary for the series to move forward. I think they've demonstrated his reluctancy to care about Ellie as a person pretty well. Like they don't need to explicitly state it, but we understand the complex reasons he's keeping her at arms length.

  91. While I totally I agree, considering how there's only 9 episodes in Season 1 and we're effectively at the half-way point, they need to move fast to build that relationship.

  92. I feel like this initial softening is setting us up for the "fallout" after visiting Tommy. They have a surface level friendship AtM so it can be strained when Ellie asks about Sarah and then surviving that test they become family. Cause unless I remember wrong there's not much between "Pittsburgh" and Wyoming

  93. Only nine episodes in the season can’t draw things out too long. Plus they’ve been together for a decent amount of time it’s not that far fetched. It’s very hard to pace a show like a game

  94. There’s really nothing requiring them to only make him overly gruff until he cracks and lets her in. This is more of a back and forth. You can guarantee he’s gonna devastate her later when he offloads her to Tommy. That way it feels like he’s gaining progress and then shuts her down hard.

  95. Interesting isn't it? I was caught off guard to how quickly Joel comforted Ellie instead of yelling "I'm glad I didn't get my head blown off by a goddamn kid." Seems he cares about her innocence a lot more than he did in the games, similar to how in the last episode he wanted to take a detour in order to avoid the dead bodies for Ellie's sake.

  96. Yeah it’s tough. I like watching him be soft but at the same time I agree. I kept expecting him to be mad at Ellie for shooting the guy like in the game but instead he actually apologized

  97. Liked the episode, but I feel like the "bad guys are just misunderstood good guys" shtick they've been trying to do doesn't really work as well with the KC rebels. This is supposed to be a moment of real, visceral danger Joel and Ellie are in as they're ambushed by raiders. Here there's maybe a hint of tension which disappears very quickly.

  98. A hint of tension? I don't know, the dudes with multiple trucks decked out in tactical gear going door-to-door after being instructed to "Kill them all" felt like a bit more than a "hint" to me.

  99. I think they’re rushing the relationship between Joel and Ellie. It would’ve been nice to see Joel from being more cold with Ellie to slowly starting to open up to her. In the show it happened within the span of one episode

  100. Disappointing that Joel didn't bring a bunch of guns from Bill's with him. If he did I don't see why he couldn't grab at least one or two from the truck before leaving the laundry, so I figure he didn't.

  101. I know dream sequences are kinda lame, but I’d really really like to see a dream sequence where Joel’s neck gets shredded by a clicker like we do in-game.

  102. Ah man gosh bless all those who don’t know what’s about to happen. They’re gonna be really really depressed. Imo I think that’s what’s perfect about the bill/frank episode, give everybody a little bit of hope before you plunge them into hell for the rest of the season

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Author: admin