The logic of people against raising the minimum wage

  1. I have the same argument against billionaires. Why should I have to give up what I've earned or assume their debt. I've earned what I've got, they didn't. They didn't earn it.

  2. It's crazy how it's sold as stealing from the rich to give to the poor when in reality they have the capital, resources and know how to basically pay less in taxes then most Americans. Then the corps have not paying taxes down to a science. I mean if Evil Walmart can pay their taxes when why the fuck can't every other corp.

  3. "We are not all equal," says man who presumably masturbates to the Declaration of Independence.

  4. I used to think that "equality of opportunity" was a valid sociological theory, until someone asked who it was that determined what constitutes equal opportunity.

  5. As others have pointed out, creating "equality of opportunity" is *way* harder than creating equality of outcome.

  6. Because we’re all human beings and should have access to the same opportunities. Maybe a person chooses not to go to college. But he should be granted the same opportunity.

  7. In my lived experience, the same people that cry for equality of opportunity are the same that refuse to see any barriers others experience to this so called 'equality'.

  8. They don't even want an equality of opportunity. Then they'd have to pay the taxes that they voted onto their elders to pay for their cheap schooling, they'd have to take huge losses on their houses to provide young people with equal opportunity to housing. The only thing this person should be told is

  9. So I was speaking to someone at a fancy dinner party full of millionaires (not me--I just had a personal connection) and somehow the topic of Millennials came up. Like so many older, well-compensated people, someone there commented on how hard they worked for their money (between sips of wine), and that Millennials are just lazy. Forget for a moment the tremendous arrogance and self-aggrandizement implicit in posturing as superior to an entire generation--these people are all completely missing the point. We are not saying that you didn't work hard--we have no way of knowing how hard you personally worked, or anyone else (much like you don't know how hard we work). The point is that we have to pay more for the same basic qualifications, more is expected of us, and in return we receive less. This is what an economic downturn and widening inequality means--not that the entire population suddenly and inexplicably became lazy, but that economic forces lowered our quality of life. I don't remember what I said, but I didn't get invited back. The bubble of delusory self-superiority is far more comfortable than the realism of interaction with the poors.

  10. They refuse to acknowledge that it is in fact harder economically to be establishing yourself now vs when they were doing it. They want to think that it still takes the same amount of work, resolve, and even the same ideological values, to achieve what they have, and it's not true

  11. "Oh so you guys got suckered into the scam just enough to turn around and sell it to the next rubes and now you're mad that the youngsters know it's a scam?"

  12. A journalist for the New Yorker in the 30‘s wrote that the youth of the day was disrespectful and lazy drug addicts. Of course the generation he was talking about went on to fight in and win WWII. We can even go back to ancient times when a philosopher said children prefer to play instead of learn and disrespect their parents. The point is that, old, miserable people, have been repeating this nonsense for generations and they’re ALWAYS wrong. They fail to grasp a world that’s left them behind and it angers them.

  13. With productivity gains over the last few decades, millennials will produce more output in their first 10 years in the workforce than most boomers did in a lifetime.

  14. Another redditor said this and I just like bringing it up whenever I can (sorry I forgot their name): The conservative viewpoint boils down to two philosophical principals.

  15. If different people are born into families with different amounts of money and it different locations then how could it be reasonable to declare that the less fortunate are just not trying hard enough? If that discrepancy will inevitably be there then how is it even logical to assume it's their own fault?

  16. The fucking prosperity gospel that's part of the US Christian bullshit. If you're poor, therefore something is wrong with you because god is punishing you or some such shit.

  17. I heard this BS from an idiot in one of my pasttime circles. Dud e was delusional. His parents gave him money to invest into another family business and he thought that if he had this everyone else did. His wife doesn't even work and his bullshit output just kept expending until I finally blocked him.

  18. I get to enjoy all these perks because my fore fathers stole all the land from the natives forced black people into slavery, colonized and siphoned all the wealth from poorer countries just so I can tell others to work hard like me, FU

  19. Yep that's why everyone who currently has student debt is focused on making college free for future generations rather than asking the government to forgive their own debt right?

  20. Why is it that people thinking that paying off a student loan is some rite of passage? You unnecessarily worked harder than you needed to in order to pay for something that should have been free to begin with…you deserve sympathy, not praise. And definitely not a feeling of pride. More like a feeling of being ripped off.

  21. I’m going to feel so happy when my student loans are paid off. Personally, I think it should have a cost so that we take it seriously, but it’s too damn high. I have coworkers that have told me they worked part time jobs and left with no debt, that’s impossible now and on average graduates with Bachelors owe $30k. I won’t complain if the government clears student debt or hell $10k, but they really need to fix the long term problem. Why the hell is it so high?!

  22. " I worked very hard 40 years ago when a house was 20,000 and I made 25 an hour. Now I expect other people to work hard to buy a 500,000 home at 15 an hour and achieve the same outcome. Because I'm not paying attention and really don't give a fuck, cause I got mine suckers!!! " the fucking irony and audacity that these people call others entitled.

  23. And today they're depending on people's savings to keep us out of recession. They want people to spend down every dollar they've saved to go right back to living paycheck-to-paycheck with no savings. It's really sick manipulation and domination.

  24. Right wing propaganda really has done a number on people. They’ll actually vote against their own interests as long as they have somebody else to look down on.

  25. Same happened during Nazi Germany. Hitler told his propagandists to not even bother with trying to convince the left because they‘ll require proof. The same thing is happening today. The unwashed masses and midwestern rubes are profoundly ignorant and naive. They prefer authoritarian strongmen because they can’t think for themselves.

  26. With student debt, they act like they're personally paying off someone's loan, and they don't "want that responsibility" of paying for someone's "useless liberal" degree. Then they go on about how their house and car should be forgiven too. It's wild lmao

  27. To be fair, I don’t think this is about minimum wage, but about student debt. If someone went to a cheaper school, took below average debt, and then paid it off, they did pay their debt. If taxes go higher because of student loan forgiveness, they are in fact “paying” for others debt.

  28. Equality of opportunity doesn't exist. I had to nearly fucking die many times to get where I am. Kids with wealthy parents got the college dorm experience. That is not equality of opportunity.

  29. Equality of opportunity is literally the argument increasing the minimum wage relies on... I swear we need to figure out how to get these people who don't even know what they're arguing about, out of the discussion. They're muddying the waters and making it impossible for real conversation about anything.

  30. They don't understand that $1 isn't a dollar anymore. Back then a fulltime Janitor could own a house, 2 cars and a weekend boat plus send his kids to college. 1980 minimum wage was $3.10 that could buy you 8.5 gallons of gas. Now you can buy 1.5 gallons of gas with the minimum wage.

  31. So what's the alternative? How does a society guarantee equality without becoming a nanny state like in 1984?

  32. X genner here, I got hit by the early waves of this bullshirt when I was a teen, and literally been working my entire life to just barely survive (and it ain't worth it at this point, tbh).

  33. Do they even know that raising minimum wadges would just also benefit them ? If minimum wadges went up they can also justify asking for a raise.

  34. These the guys who supposibly pulled themselves from their bootstraps. These people act like their generational inherited wealth somehow was their own hard work

  35. Outcomes vary depending personal experience. Holding someone else to the same effort you put it just tramples all over their experience. It is like I believe a factual definition for ignorance.

  36. But it seems like this is the conservative mindset on a lot of things. They refuse things that would help people, even themselves, on this idea that this aid/opportunity/whatever might go to someone who doesn't deserve it (based on their personal ideology of deserving), or that it would take something away from them (even if they'd benefit in the long run).

  37. It is technically impossible to be held to the same standard as you used to be able to rise ahead of your station with a bit of extra effort.

  38. Can you believe that people want to be compensated for their hard work and dedication. The arrogance of these people, I swear.

  39. My chefs kiss on this type of shit is always the bald eagle branding. Bald eagles often scavenge or steal kills from other predators. So the eagle is apt for this type of capitalism fetishizing. Buy now for a low introductory price bald eagle with extra bootstrap gumption

  40. So a petty, selfish asshole who pretends that his own suffering and exploitation necessitates that of others, while simultaneously refusing to accept that their situation is not the same as his.

  41. “i was a bitch boy for a few bucks to get where i am and i’ll be damned if someone’s gets to my level in a couple weeks with these new wages”

  42. "Equal Opportunity" while having more opportunities than others and saying it's because they worked for those opportunities. No one works for opportunities, they are created by circumstances and luck.

  43. The person that made this makes like $60k a year at most. It just has that "I have a little bit more than the people around me, so I'm better than them" energy. Actual people who make good money wouldn't be so dickish about it

  44. There's a few people that have literally made a life out of nothing. Generally those people are extremely humble. The idiots that got a massive step up in life and boast about it are the ones posting this shit.

  45. These ageist arguments never make sense to me. Elderly people work minimum wage jobs because they cannot survive without the income and because our systems are set up to make it hard for most people to retire. Raising the minimum wage means help for the elderly as well as young people. The minimum wage helps poor people, of any age.

  46. Maybe he should walk a mile in minimum wage shoes. Is it too much to ask for a decent wage? A car 🚗 for the freedom to travel? Decent Health Care? Minimum wage breeds contempt, desperation, crime and disease.

  47. As a culture, we really need to get rid of the, "I got mine. Go f**k yourself," attitude. Being a selfish myopic curmudgeon doesn't help anything.

  48. So I guess if you're born with a disability, or pick one up along the way, then he wants to just crap on you and kick you into the gutter.

  49. I can almost guarantee this was posted by someone over-leveraged and mortgaged to the hilt, driving a 70k truck making 55k a year.

  50. Translation: "I got lucky, or I had better circumstances to get ahead in. I don't care if you did or not, you're on your own."

  51. The logic of a bastard whose ancestors stole a bunch of shit and doesn't want to acknowledge it

  52. The mental gymnastics to go from “all men are created equal” to this is wild to me. Did we read the same ancient documents?

  53. They must’ve worked very hard to be born into a generation who’s parents and grandparents fought for employees rights so that they could reap the benefits while doing nothing but shit talking the next generation that they actively fuck over, then talk shit about when they complain

  54. The same people screaming about Biden and inflation and the cost of everything going up, are same ones who refuse to support a living minimum wage. It’s not about what they’ve accomplished, now that they are there, they want to screw everyone else…which is basically how capitalism works. Yes, theoretically everyone starts from a single point. Yet we all know the deck is stacked, and when you let that process run without proper regulation…this is what you get, an Oligarchy disguised as opportunity…

  55. I AGREE. However, when the bare minimum can’t even afford for someone to live in this country. That’s where I have a problem. $20 should be the bare minimum and $24-$25 in Urban States like California and NY. Does it pay 100%? No people can work extra hours or even if they don’t they at least have enough to eat, rent a place, pay some bills and save a bit.

  56. Lol the guy who posted this was a guy taking in the massive amount of 40k a year living pay check to paycheck. But he sure did earn his poverty and wants u all to know it!:

  57. Losers like that are typically making $1.00 above their state’s minimum wage and they think they’re special. And of course, they have to put some clichéd American mascot somewhere in their bullshit propagandic message.

  58. Moronic. Notice that it begins with hard work AFTER the opportunity has been given. So while they conclude that everyone should get an equal opportunity, we aren’t let into the opportunity they received that others may not have gotten due to luck, race, connections, finances etc.

  59. Capitalism has well and truly killed altruism. I've seen how disabled and chronically ill people in my home country suffer (no such thing as govt payments for these people, or even accessibility things like ramps to get down from and up to sidewalk), and knowing that my tax dollar in Australia is used to fund the Disability Scheme makes me happy, because at least we're caring for our fellow humans.

  60. Inequality of outcomes inevitably requires that either some people are inferior to others or that there has no been equality in opportunities.

  61. The last sentence is one of the most fundamental differences between democrats and republicans. The problem with equal opportunity is that it requires people to acknowledge privilege and class systems, and the problem with equal outcomes is that it requires people to acknowledge some will game the system and take opportunities from others who might be more inclined to improve their lives with a hand.

  62. It’s a false equivalency. Yes he worked hard but the opportunities were there. Maybe he got paid minimum wage but minimum wage could go a lot further back then.

  63. Good old "Fuck yours, I got mine!" logic. Typically see it of older folks who think just because they got somewhere they should be exempt from the social contract save for payouts to them. That's not how this works grandma, unless you want to end up in an under staffed nursing home with people who don't care if you live or die today.

  64. Imagine being entitled to watch other people have to go through the torment you went through and view that as justice.

  65. I get their point... but what they don't understand is some people will work really hard their whole life and not get out of poverty. So some things need to change so that isn't the case anymore.

  66. You know..neither republicans or democrats have the correct stance on financial equality. Don't give people handouts that are not motivated to better themselves, but don't make things impossible for those that are willing to work hard. The rich should have to pay massive taxes the more they make, they already exploit every tax loophole there is and let's face the end of the day they still have way more then most of us can dream of.

  67. You could have this opinion, and still be in favour of a higher minimum wage. I am a believer in paying your debts. I'm also very much in favour of an increased minimum wage. It's $15/hr where I live and I think it should be $20 or higher. That being said, all wage ranges need to increase proportionally.

  68. No, the author of this poster did not have "equal opportunity". They started from a position of privilege. I could make a similar argument about how I was bounced from school to school because my parents moved a lot, and how I went to the "worst" High School in my district. I finally "made it" even though many of my classmates didn't. The truth is that in spite of apparently crappy educational circumstances, I was born into a family of the educated working class. My dad became an engineer without a college degree and only a GED. He was in the right place at the right time at the dawn of the computer era, and he was...white. My mom has a bachelor's degree, as did my maternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. She, too, is white.

  69. Then tell me why a billionaire can claim bankruptcy for a failed business. But a person with a student loan, that can't be paid back, can't declare bankruptcy.

  70. I can kind of see the logic of it - if I work hard and get results, how is it fair to me or my effort for someone else to get the same results if they barely put any effort in?

  71. Equality of opportunity would be fucking great actually. Kids born as orphans should have every opportunity that kids born to billionaires have.

  72. People who overwork, i.e. workaholics, are part of the issue and they're too self-absorbed in their self-made successful person narratives to understand it.

  73. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to improve your life. It's just going to drive up the costs of basics. Which is just going to make the separation of wealth in greater. This is the irony of this.

  74. I agree 100% with this statement but feel raising minimum wage is a no brainer. It should be law that it is tied to inflation and reset every year Jan 1st (up or down).

  75. Their logic is sound and they have a right to be upset. They would be paying for other people’s debt, technically.

  76. Aw the lil shill is mad at people not wanting to accept abuse. Poor lil thing. Maybe you should run back to whatever shit subreddit you crawled out of so the scarey facts can't hurt you.

  77. If something happened to you that you don't like; don't ever think it's now your turn to do that to someone else.

  78. The same exact people are willing to pay for rich people's taxes and corporate taxes. Proof of this is that they keep voting for republicans.

  79. Well with that logic let's hope you enjoy being an outlaw because laws are about to force you to pay for your success that are even more stringent then the ones already in place.

  80. Except there is no equality of opportunity. Unless its the opportunity to have some big company take all your money (looking at you oil companies).

  81. Nobody asked them to pay anyones debt. They have such an inflated sense of the taxes they think they pay AND where it goes. It’s freaking disgusting.

  82. This falls apart once you dig into what is meant by "outcome". The outcome people desire is opportunity. Opportunity thought money, through family, through favorable contacts and treatment by society. Or fitting with this sub, the opportunity to be unemployed and still live comfortably.

  83. Misfortune is the measure of equality of opportunity; not work ethic or ability endowed by privilege and generational wealth (more leveraged good fortunate). This is purely propaganda to divide the classes between a false narrative of blue vs red, who works harder?!

  84. I’ve worked in concrete construction since I was 16. I’m 34 now. Where’s my house, Cadillac, and motorcycle? I’ve worked hard doing 10-12 days in the summer for 16 years. Where’s my shit? Oh you have it then yes I’m gonna take it. Here’s my opportunity, and if your outcome results in me burning or taking all your shit, then there’s your equality.

  85. I used to live in a relatively small country, population 1.6million, and there was a real mentality in work and in life that there was only room for a certain amount of people to succeed..

  86. This is why society will never get better. People are unwilling to give up some of what they have to help others.

  87. I agree but we are not even given equality of opportunity. What opportunities are given when your healthcare is more than half your check. What opportunity is given when everything hits inflation besides pay raises. People arnt asking for a handout people are asking for an opportunity to survive and build some capital in terms of savings. None I know is asking for a hand out. How funny is it that people would rather stay at home and collect unemployment because the unemployment check is more than they made at work. Something there dosent add up. People have to put themselves in others shoes and show some empathy.

  88. This same argument could be made for going against student debt cancellation.Wait a minute it has .I heard so many boomers say this exact argument for student debt.

  89. Can someone please explain to me why raising minimum wage is the solution rather than working to lower the cost of living (rent, groceries, gas, etc)? Because I keep seeing minimum wage go up (from 9$ to 15$) but in my profession and my husbands professions our wages have barely increased 1-2% per year which is lower than inflation. This is defacto lowering the buying power of the middle class and making it just the ultra rich and then everyone else... so why isnt the solution to work to halt or lower inflation??

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