I’ll put the link to the new paper in the comments

  1. TLDR They studied 610 metabolites in the blood of ME patients and healthy controls. They found significant difference between the two groups in 67 metabolites (including Ron Davis’ tryptophan/kynurenine pathway). In addition to that, they were able to identify 3 subgroups (with overlap) within the group of ME patients, each of which had different metabolite changes.

  2. Maybe I missed it but where did you see 67 metabolites were the only statistically different ones? In the I intro they state otherwise: “159 metabolites that had statistically significant level differences (P < 0.05) between the ME/CFS and HC groups.”

  3. I’ve often described the feeling of cfs as being like I’m not getting enough oxygen - not necessarily short of breath, but just faint and weak like I’m not getting enough oxygen somehow.

  4. So what I gathered from this is as follows: We all remember one thing and one thing only from science class- the mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell. So the mitochondria is pumping out soup (entertain me here). Everyone in the cell is lined up to get soup so they can power through the day. All parts of the soup are necessary for a healthy (energized) cell. The healthy people they have stainless steel bowls to eat from, but us? Us lucky motherfuckers eat our soup out of a colander. No matter how much soup goes in all we’re getting in the end are some lousy bits and wet shoes. You could ladle in soup for days, months, even years and still not have enough soup bits to power you through the things you wish you could do. And all the healthy cells will keep saying “if you just eat the soup you’ll be fine” or “I’m eating the soup! You just need to try to eat more of the soup! You’re not even trying.” Then one day you’ll lose your shit and take a healthy person’s steel bowl, beat their brains in with it, steal their dry shoes, and treat that bowl like a precious family heirloom that they’ll have to pry from your cold dead hands. The end.

  5. Thank you!!!!! This is very very helpful. I wonder if this is why I always feel better when I’m out on a lake or in the ocean if it’s something to do with the oxygen. I always feel a little better out there after a while…or as I refer to it…Better Bad.

  6. If the "exertion-triggered tissue hypoxia" hypothesis turns out to be correct, I suspect that something like

  7. I’ve always thought something like blood doping would do wonders for PEM if indeed cellular hypoxia is involved lol. What we need is EPO! Where are some Russian sports doping experts when you need them?! Too bad the side effects of blood doping can just kill you. ETA of course regular blood doping and EPO probably wouldn’t even work right if the oxygen isn’t actually getting to the cells to be used. Ugh.

  8. This sounds very plausible, I've always though my crashes felt I was being poisoned in every cell; how I imagined carbon monoxide poisoning did feel.

  9. “Exertion is simply existing” lmfao in the saddest way possible 😭 The only time I’m not in pain is when I sleep. I wish I could sleep for three straight months…

  10. 20 Researchers named on a paper that studied 83 patients and 35 controls based on 1005 data points. They had to create 3 classes to make numbers fit. Not sure if it is gobbledygook or they are battling the sheer complexity of the illness. Besides that, they used the R programming language...

  11. I’m wondering if this was the study my friend was in, I’ll ask. I know there were some studies recently where they had tons of issues getting patients to participate because the PEM was too strenuous so they opened them to more locations

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