Co-worker got fired after just a few weeks in junior developer position. Don’t take jobs for granted.

  1. I'm a Jr. Dev who just successfully got my first job in the industry. While going through the interviewing process, I came across at least 2 temp companies that claimed to be able to get me Mid to Senior level positions so long as I was comfortable lying about my experience. Super shady imo. If I was in your position, I would def vet any candidate you find through a 3rd party recruiter super hard.

  2. Will have to read about this more. I want to hire the right person. Not looking for a lot other than someone honest about their skill set and is willing to learn.

  3. I had one of those companies reach out to me recently, too. I said, thanks but no thanks. Walking into the industry with zero integrity and losing my job being a given on any possible day? No thanks.

  4. 100% agreed. Who was his mentor/manager? I would have known within a few days that he wasn't making progress if he was under me. He was a junior dev ffs how's he supposed to know how to communicate? When I started my first job I came from blue collar work; I had no idea how to communicate progress or even the purpose of the meetings I was in.

  5. This is very simple. OPs company just wanted a senior level experience for junior salary. Interviewer gave them the answer they were looking for and they got what they wanted.

  6. if a brand new dev was assigned work for a client with a deadline you were basically shooting yourself in the foot from the moment he was hired

  7. My boss is fully aware of this now after having similar past situations. He’s done with it now. So I have to hire the next person and make the rules. New to me as I stated 100 times.

  8. If a JR dev was put in a position where it was possible for them to have one large project due without smaller check in points of clearly shippable code, that is on the boss and the team.

  9. Yeah something like "show me what you've got so far" seems like a pretty reasonable ask before it got to a critical point...

  10. Agreed, why weren’t they producing incremental changes for code review? Two projects over a month is too large of a chunk of work for one checkpoint for somebody new or junior.

  11. Wait companies give you a week to get your computer set up? Most companies from my experience expects me to set up within a day itself lol.

  12. Okay first. I didn’t assign anything. I’m also a developer. My boss did the assigning.

  13. You let the new hire (junior) work on a real project with customer and that even has an approaching deadline? And that is supposed to be finished 1 month after hired? Even a senior engineer needs 2-3 months to get up to speed before starting to work on real stuffs. Your company is setting the junior up to fail.

  14. Some juniors come in not understanding the client/server relationship. That doesn’t mean they’re going to be bad devs. It just means they need to show improved understanding over a reasonable time period.

  15. Yep, senior with 11 YoE here, still need some time to rump up, and at my current company we were happy with a pull request within the 2 weeks (first one was just rh stuff).

  16. I’ve been purposely dodging this comment because my boss is hyper focused on indeed for recruiting. Not sure how to mention there’s a bunch of people on Reddit interested.

  17. When i got my junior position they mentored me and taught me communication from the first days - I think they explained it to me like 10 times to reach out for help when struggling and don't wait till the deadline. Not to mention onboarding and giving me 6 months to start delivering real value.

  18. Feel like most companies onboarding is sink or swim. Maybe fb or Google have dedicated onboarding processes but at most places its haphazordly thrown together. Sometimes you might be assigned a mentor, but in all cases a Junior shouldnt expect hand holding.

  19. It seems your boss actually wants a mid level for the pay of a junior. You cannot hand a task to a junior and ask them to go do it. Not at first, anyway. Juniors need hand holding, especially in a remote setting.

  20. im a junior(1 YoE), and around feb i was assigned as the only developer for a highly in-demand feature for internal and eventual client use.

  21. Frankly spoken, this seems also like a lack of leadership to me. You don't simply assign a big chunk of work to juniors and hope for the best. You start with smaller tasks that can be completed in a day or two and closely examine their work. If their first PRs turn out okay, you increase the workload. If the next PRs are also good, you can decrease the monitoring frequency and let them do their work on their own. If they already need a week or more for a very simplistic task, you can react much quicker, schedule a 1:1 and ask if the person needs help.

  22. Honestly even in positions I've got proficiency with, my first month of work is basically nothing but roadblocks and poor performance -- who knows a company's process in their first month? Many employers struggle to onboard and effectively just go "here's your keys, get to work" and that sets juniors up to fail.

  23. This happened to me in a job early on, I wasn’t coding though. I was offered a promotion from an entry level position and took it. Was 18 had no idea what I was doing, and thought I could fib my way through things and just spend extra hours catching up on my own. Realized part way through I wasn’t gonna make it. Didn’t want to admit I lied so I just said to myself “it’s do or die - they’ll fire you if they learn you lied, may as well go for broke”. Didn’t get it done.. didn’t even make moderate progress. Just wasted everyone’s time telling them everything was coming along great. Obviously, Ended up not getting the promotion and ultimately had to leave because everything was so embarrassing.

  24. How much onboarding did this individual receive? I've always heard that the general timeframe to get a junior develop up to speed is like at least 3 months. It's an investment to train and mentor a junior developer into someone who is self-sufficient and able to contribute effectively.

  25. Yeah, project deadlines in the first month is a massive red flag. 3-6 months to get up to speed, first month is basically all onboarding even if they're doing productive tasks.

  26. The dev did not work with an existing code base. The only tasks were to convert designs to code by any method of their choice. The client did not have a specific requirement either so it’s a good opportunity to let our new hire show what he can do.

  27. Should not have assigned 2 projects with a deadline, He was set up to Failure from the beginning, we assign projects to junior devs after almost 2 months.

  28. My boss likes to hire people who sound smart and have cool projects. That’s done with now because I’m in charge.

  29. Ok I think you can look basic code smell tests, you can give them exercises of full stack open to do in front of you, should take like 20 mins to complete 2 exercise challenged if they know their stuff

  30. Thanks for the suggestion. I’m thinking of giving a project related to what we do for small clients which is design conversion. They can use any stack they want.

  31. Assigning a junior developer critical tasks with a hard 1 month deadline on day 1 is utterly moronic. It’s a bad idea to do that with even a mid or senior level developer. Sure they may not have communicated that they were struggling, but did they have a mentor or anyone to check with them 1:1 daily how they’re doing? “Silently struggling” is very common among new developers, I think your manager had a responsibility to be more proactive about that. Also I hope you’re in a low cost of living area because $60k isn’t competitive in lots of places.

  32. Yeah, I guess it’s true. I haven’t been a junior in a long time so my idea of things are warped. What I think is simple is probably not for juniors. It’s better I get yelled at now because I needed a reality check for next week.

  33. Depends at the task of course. But generally you are right. With all the time going into setup and getting to know the environment they should not get a time sensitive task.

  34. Looks like your company threw him in the deep end and expected him to instantly start swimming. I'd sort of understand if he was hired as a senior developer, but he was hired as a junior, so my expectation would be to get him onboarded and familiarized with your tech stack before assigning him time sensitive projects.

  35. One interview technique I liked a lot as the person being interviewed is for the interviewer to start out with soft ball questions then jump to a question that you wouldn't expect a junior to know the answer to. If they try to bs you and make it seem like they know but they clearly don't have the answer you know there is a good chance they'll do that on the job too. You can also see some social skills in handling a question.

  36. This is perfect. Thanks dude. Just gotta work on my nerves and poker face so it’s not obvious if I know someone is bsing.

  37. Uh hi, bouta start my fourth week and will likely spend it finishing some training, reading design docs, and at best submitting a some unit tests for review…… should I just fire myself at this point?

  38. No. Judging from this posts and experienced devs here it looks like the Junior was given Mid-Level expectations and set up the junior to fail.

  39. If I'm ever in the position of watching over someone like this, I hope I remember to ask for the code every couple days or so. Just having git and seeing the commits should be enough not to run into something like this right? Or at least, catch it sooner.

  40. Even senior devs shouldn't take jobs for granted either. I worked at a startup company where they manage to hire top notch people many are young men and women professionals who have experience from prior works. They know what they're doing and are very collaborative. One mistake the leadership made was to assume the project runway funds will continue just like previous years, so they go aggressive on expansion.

  41. Sometimes I feel like this sub has unrealistically low expectations from a junior. Sure you don't expect them to get right on and deliver value, but you do expect basic communication skills? Otherwise on what basis did you hire them? I get that he might be afraid/shy to speak about his problems on standups, but he could reach out to individual engineers, or even his manager, in person.

  42. I think there's a lot of blame to go around here. Yes I agree that this some people in thread are being overly dramatic about what you can and can't expect from a junior. However, the main thing that makes a junior a junior is that they need guidance and mentorship to complete tasks. That is an absolute. If OP and his manager were completely oblivious to what their new hire's progress was looking like for two months, then they clearly failed to uphold their obligations in the relationship as well.

  43. Well, if it is a developer position, why don't you have technical interview? Just ask some basic Linux, relational database, php questions, you can filter out unqualified candidates.

  44. Thank you. Adding ideas to list. Feeling more confident about it now that you guys are making it seem easy / straight forward even though I know it won’t be come decision time

  45. Yeah I don’t get some ppl. Not only do they lie but they don’t put in the effort: much deserved.

  46. Prob just a young inexperienced kid who hasn’t had much life or a taste of reality thrown at him. He will learn and learn fast.

  47. It's unfortunate that some people don't understand that if devs don't work and lie about it, they betray the team and other people within the company. This absolutely warrants immediate dismissal.

  48. Seems like a shit company that gives 0 fucks about fostering talent. Is there even an onboarding process? You just give them a laptop and go "cool, now do this and this, you got 4 weeks, bye"?

  49. Reading these posts always upsets me. I'm trying to land my first position and I'd do everything I could to impress and get the job done, yet the ones actually getting jobs can't handle it and don't seem to be able to code. It's because of them that employers are losing trust in giving new developers a chance. Do I need to start lying on my resume?? Because I'd figure out how to match whatever expectations I gave or at least be vocal about needing help.

  50. Senior engineer, all this is your company's fault. Where's the source control and pull requests and reviews? Why an entire project rather than an epic and tasks that progress can be tracked against? Why no pairing up or demos or catch up meetings. Terrible place to work as a junior.

  51. The moment I got to the part where he started talking about customers waiting on the Jr dev's work I stopped reading. Sounds fake or so dysfunctional it's not worth talking about. Why is this so upvoted?

  52. I'd fire his lead too. Who let's a junior work unsupervised? Why would you trust a junior to know if he's making progress or if the work is up to expectations?

  53. No offense, but, I think you could have just put the title "If you don't do your job, you will be fired", and without any content.

  54. If a junior dev fails typically the only ones to blame are management and the senior devs. The fact that no one knew he was struggling is on you more than it is him.

  55. This is going to sound fantastical, but it happens. Is he a legit person on Linkedin? Think of scammers cheating their way through tech interviews for remote dev positions just to collect the first few weeks of onboarding checks and pretend to work until fired. There are sophisticated operations run by actual SWEs who send their minions to conduct interviews and whisper answers into their earpieces. Various HR people post these interviews gone wrong on social media. The point is, you can send out 10 fake jr devs to collect quite a bit of cash.

  56. I was not aware of this at all but yes he’s a real person and we’ve met the first day when taking home work equipment from the office. It’s a choice if you want gear to bring home. Company will even buy you stuff.

  57. No offense but 60k is pretty low salary for junior devs. Maybe increase your pay. You get what you pay for. Not saying 60k devs are trash but they would need some more help

  58. I just hired a half dozen people and already let three of them go because they either can't work remote or they straight up lied on their CV. I think one of them might have even used somebody else for the interview because the person we interviewed and the person that came to work daily was the complete opposite experience. I let folks go within the first month if we're not seeing enough progress, we don't mess around with that.

  59. Never knew junior devs do such basic work. I spent 6 months 2 years ago learning dev work then life got in the way. This inspired me to continue/restart again.

  60. If he has work experience or projects ask him about it and dig into it. Ask him what tech stacks he or they used, ask him to explain the development process he went through. How did he make decisions and why.

  61. its really tough being remote your first job. you just sit there and time guys by. i do feel sorry for this guy. its going to kill his confidence.

  62. Got a part time full remote internship and do not get a lot of hours.Was given a functionality of a project to do, knocked it mostly out in a day, slightly underbilled for my hours for my first project, only bill when I'm doing actual work, and always stay on top of it...

  63. To be honest and I know I will get downvoted for this. I don’t see what’s so wrong for this approach, I started as a junior and had similar things and it’s what helps you learn. The developer should have reached out asked to get setup and bug people about questions. Clearly they did nothing.

  64. i got out of college a few years ago, and i've been at my current job about 2 and a half years. Even as a qualified guy who knew how to program, I was really averse to asking questions that I needed to ask and really weren't that bad of questions when I started. I didn't want to look dumb if it was something I was supposed to be able to figure out. But if that process of "figuring it out" takes a day, or more, that's not gonna really work.

  65. I really need to finish programming training so I can get one of these jobs. $60k to work from home could work for me at the moment.

  66. I’m sort of in a similar position, I just got my first developer job as a mobile developer. I’m the only mobile developer they have, I have roughly 15k lines of code between and iOS and Android app to maintain. Within one week of starting the job my boss gives me 6 weeks to add this massive new feature to one of the apps. I was doing great for a while but now I’m stuck on this last part and I can’t get help from anyone because no one knows how the codebase works let alone how iOS/Swift development works.

  67. Based on what you've written, you're asking the wrong questions. The blame rests nearly solely on leadership for this failure. There are definitely mistakes the junior is making here (struggling but reporting fine progress, etc) but this is exactly what I'd expect a junior to do. Many have a hard time gauging what their expectations are and often don't perfectly understand workplace etiquette (when it is OK to ask for questions, etc). It's especially difficult for new hires in a remote atmosphere. Unless leaders are helping to establish 1-1 meetings, they are going to end up feeling isolated. This one looks like he struggled initially, and then the stress of falling behind hurt his confidence and he was just afraid and didn't know really how to organize his thoughts.

  68. We're quick to forget that the Junior title doesn't only qualify the developer's part of the job, but also just working in a company to begin with.

  69. This is an interesting story. But why is it so framed around the junior dev? Clearly we’re all in agreement that this was a management and team failure, but the focus on this poor junior dev is so sad and telling.

  70. Where I work we don’t even expect seniors to onboard until 6 ish months. I don’t know why your company thought giving a junior dev with clearly no onboarding or proper mentorship a deadline project was a good idea.

  71. Your team failed him. Because you hired him at the junior level, you guys were supposed to give him a mentor that did frequent check ins with the junior and helped him become unstuck. You guys hired a junior expecting him to work at the level of a mid-level for junior pay.

  72. Details are pretty important here. He lied about his skills and experience, he didn't even attempt to get help, and who knows when he even tried to start working on it. Would be a dick move to fire a struggling junior who is trying this early but this isnt that. Not saying I'd fire him but a lot of red flags

  73. Lmfao. My team just hired someone with 10 yoe as a lead and we expected nothing from him for the first 2 weeks, and then assigned him 2 story points for his first sprint and 4 for his second sprint. What in the hell are you all thinking giving a junior actual work in their first week at a company?

  74. 60k junior dev is only going to get someone capable of doing maintenance, bug fixes, and minor feature additions. And that is only after spending a minimum of a week, probably 2 weeks, learning what ever company framework you use and learning how the product is developed.

  75. firing a junior developer for his incapability in anything is bullshit......there is a reason why his title has junior...he is yet to be properly should have given him atleast 6 months to pickup any valuable tasks....why even assign time sensitive task to a junior developer..even if you have assigned...after the first 2 weeks...someone from the team should have pair programmed or even picked up the tab completely...its both the management and team mates fault here.......even for a senior developer...onboarding takes close to a can you expect anything from a fresher or junior developer during the initial days?

  76. What people assume is slacking off, he might have been dying from anxiety, struggling, no guidance and deadlines. I have had those days so I can easily understand

  77. I've read a load of your replies and almost every one is "my boss did it, I'm just a developer". This is not how modern software development works, and it's not how healthy teams in any field work. The new hire is more junior than you, so it is your responsibility to make sure they have everything they need to progress. If they are struggling and you can't help, escalate it to someone who can.

  78. Exactly and the title is suggesting the jrs better get their shit together and act even more like they understand everything that’s going on. OP, that’s the issue with this post. You can blame everything about the company on your boss, but you are still implying that the person fired should have been more on top of things. So ultimately you started off blaming the new hire as a warning to other new devs. This is not a good message. New devs should feel safe asking for help and be honest about what they are struggling with. But if they feel afraid of getting g fired in a month like you are suggesting, even if they can get through their first tasks, they will be missing tons of learning opportunities by hiding the areas they are struggling with.

  79. Hey guys, umm..hired me please, I can commit my time as time difference is okay. I am currently in Kuwait and spent countless of midnight learning stuff. I need real world exposure. I can share you my github to those who are interested. I am super into learning stuff and applying it in real life. Thank you and be nice to me.

  80. Your place sounds like my dream job to work in. I don't understand how someone fucks up this bad. I mean even if you have lied about it, shouldn't you take charge and start learning and communicating better. And here I am begging start ups to hire me for 100 dollars a month just so I can understand how production level code is written. Some people are great at blowing their opportunities :/

  81. I don’t even know what the heck an Adobe XD file is but I’m pretty sure you can google how to do that in a month

  82. This sounds like it could be a case where this dude had like 10 jr. dev jobs and he maybe did work for 1 or 2 of them but just showed up to meetings and collected checks until he was fired at all the others.

  83. Lol dev got free money, 60k is crap for a web dev in US. Either raise your pay or be ready to deal with such bs. OP is obviously a clueless employee doing their employers bidding instead of advocating for better pay/role.

  84. Or maybe they hired an adult to do a simple job and expected them to take responsibility for their work and speak up when they run into issues. Sounds like a place that lets you work without micromanagement as long as you actually work and don’t lie about your progress

  85. Hire a junior and put them on 2 hard-deadline customer projects? Customer projects seriously? Zero onboarding time? Fucking pisslow 60K salary? Just a shit company that threw a new hire under the bus. Staying here would be idiotic and yall did him a favor lol.

  86. Cool, so nobody was assigned to mentor the junior dev? Sounds like he just got thrown to the wolves and was scared to mention it in a group setting. Junior devs need coaching to learn communication skills and the “simple” tasks you give them may not be simple to someone that doesn’t work on it all day every day.

  87. People are leaving comments like OPs company abused a poor little junior by giving him tasks beyond acceptable expectations...

  88. I think "don't take your job for granted" part is misleading. No company in this world would want to keep an employee who acts like the way your co worker did. He's an idiot. I lied in my job interview as well but I came in prepared and was able to answer all the questions asked during the interview session.

  89. The person have been struggling badly, asking for help is very tough for socially awkward people. I recommend if you see such people, offer help

  90. People will accept a little bit of incompetence, if you work hard to improve. If you're just lazy, you're no good to anybody: including yourself.

  91. as a dev on the team that is more senior, you’re not just a dev on the team. couldn’t you (or anyone for that matter) reach out to him first? where’s the culture of pairing at your workplace? he’s green, it’s probably his first gig, he has no connections. on top of that you assume he’s lazy and not at home or trying? and you’re the one doing the hiring for the company in the future?

  92. Lies on resumes get found out every time. You'll never remember the exact same story you tell, and if it's a skill, people will see you don't know it immediately, especially when they try explaining something and having to dumb it down for you.

  93. Only paying 60k a year, you guys don't deserve more work than what he put in. I know you didn't hire the guy but some feedback for your boss would be if you want quality work than pay for it. You get what you pay for.

  94. $60k is a good starting salary? Is this the US?? Maybe the lesson is the kind of people you can hire at that rate are not going to be that great.

  95. Also, what I heard loud and clear is you guys let fresh meat go off on an unsupervised project. What I can tell you from having gotten past the junior phase two years ago (comfortably) that newbies have two superpowers:

  96. This is the dumbest post ever. Your company hired a junior developer and didn't support them. They should be paired with a senior dev and shown how to do things including how to deliver working software for a client. Big fail on your company's side.

  97. I see most people blaming the company but some people just take things for granted. I would’ve finished that task in a day or two and chill the rest of the month

  98. 60k Canadian, and you wanted him to be thankful. You get what you pay for. What kind of company gives a new hire client-facing projects on his first day let alone the first week?

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  102. I believe this is also about the current market. In times where things are good and money is rolling in (the last decade, plus for some tech companies the boom of the pandemic) companies can afford to take bets and see if things work out. They can also add some nice to haves.

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