They are coming for us…

  1. Start off by tearing down the empty sears, Kmarts and useless parking lots in LA first. We have so many empty malls here that could be repurposed for housing.

  2. Where I live there are relatively new warehouses with office space that are sitting empty and they are building more. Golf course are not the problem

  3. An area near me tore down most of an old mall. I think they left two of the big anchor stores and ripped out everything in between. The vision was to create an outdoor walkable outlet mall style place with retail on the ground floor and housing above.

  4. The other thing people don’t realize is the strain on the drainage system turning permeable grass into asphalt, concrete and houses has. Whenever we turn a field into something we have to do massive drainage analysis and possible upgrade everything downstream to accommodate the extra storm water that is no longer infiltrating into the ground. It’s always better to repurpose areas that have already been built on and disturbed.

  5. The reason that they don’t propose that is more than a bit of “why not me” syndrome- it is really an attack on golfers, not the land- they see golfers as predominantly white, wealthy and happy, which they are generally not, so they use the facade of “eco-friendly” to poorly disguise their “class warfare”

  6. Not to mention that those buildings and empty parking lots IMMENSELY add to the trapped heat in our atmosphere. They absorb sunlight all day and emit it all night

  7. I believe they’re actually repurposing an old mall or sears somewhere in LA for exactly this, forget where I read it though

  8. The amount of commercial real estate that is now completely empty could definitely be repurposed. Some of the nicer apartments here used to be commercial

  9. These people don't want solutions to problems, they want to take away things other people enjoy. It's a weird fantasy power trip to them. They don't actually give a shit about the environment or other people.

  10. Or STOP BUILDING SPREAD OUT SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES. North American zoning laws ruin cities, damage the environment, and bankrupt small towns

  11. This is such a great comment. I was driving over to the range today to practice and having read your comment I was noticing all of the strip malls sitting completely empty with huge parking lots. So many places to convert to affordable housing.

  12. I think people don’t realize that they would have to get rid of the trees in most cases. Can’t construct shit with massive oak roots sprawling out

  13. I was part of the design and construction of a roundabout in our city 13 years ago that had a beautiful 100+-year-old Douglas fir tree growing on one corner lot. We went to great lengths to protect the tree during construction and even changed the design around to accommodate space for the tree roots.

  14. Woah woah woah ....wait. are you telling me this person isn't an engineer, builder, architect, or city planner? But they are speaking of such things...naw naw naw none of this makes any sense

  15. As well as grade all the land. Remove all sand. Reinforce any weak soil. The list goes on. And then the home still falls victim to bi-annual foundation repairs because it was constructed on what used to be marsh land.

  16. Because the people that suggest this shit are total and complete imbeciles that live in fantasy land

  17. Yeah that or the trees all die from root damage and start falling into houses. Then everyone complains and tries to make the developer pay for removing them all anyway. Then they are mad because they only bought the house because of the trees and privacy they provided.

  18. Or the fact that a neighborhood with 100+ homes will use more water and resources than the course. Not to mention the strain on local schools and community resources.

  19. And they don’t know anything about golf, but they really hate golf. I especially enjoyed all the comments calling us a bunch of “rich kids”. Another thought that $50 for 18 holes was a rip-off.

  20. I have a great idea… let’s turn all the abandon malls into affordable “sustainable” housing for people who can’t afford a house and cover the roof surface with solar panels?

  21. There was a dying mall not too far from this golf course that was turned into a mixed use development and the practice facility for the NHL expansion team. They’re building a fair amount up in Seattle.

  22. I live close to a former abandoned mall. They are turning half of it into housing and the other half into mixed commercial space. Excited to see the finished product

  23. How about the currently vacant luxury condos? Just sitting there since no one wants to pay $5k for one bedroom places?

  24. What if we took all parks and repurposed them for housing too??? Let's just make everything an urban hell hole

  25. This is in Seattle where housing and rent prices are crazy out of control so I understand the sentiment. However, the city of nearly 1 million people has only four public courses in city limits and one is a Par3 nine holer. Replacing this gem of a course (jk, it’s a dog track) not only restricts access for normal folk in a golf resource poor city, it is impossible because the city charter requires maintaining the current acreage of green space. So if they turn this course into housing, they have to make NEW public green space which just simply does not exist.

  26. Jackson Park is a dog track? When i was there i was under the impression that it was beloved in Seattle. Probably had the best vibe in the clubhouse and around the facilities of any course I’ve ever visited, but i only played the par 3.

  27. These people will never like golf. It’s pointless engaging them. They think every golf course can be turned into this…

  28. Not that I would engage them because I actually have brain in between my ears but god damn one of them unironically used the term “golfcels.” They are way, way too far gone to even fathom being reasonable at this point.

  29. They think every golf course in California should be turned into a nature refuge, while ignoring Californias already massive wildfire hazard

  30. The same people who get all worked up when they see a house with a lawn. "Nooo! Don't you know that grass is evil? You should have nothing in your yard but native plants and wheatgrass!"

  31. I was surprised how many comments were pro golf in that thread. Still mostly against, but most people don't realize how many people play golf. All they have in their head are the super rich private courses. They never bother to look at the public courses filled with folks from all walks of life. Nor do they look at how many of us walk our rounds.

  32. The reality is that first world countries aren’t even the problem, but that crowd doesn’t want to hear it.

  33. It does suck that there is an element of truth here, but only because of the assumption that elite country club jackasses represent the entire golf population.

  34. They’re only targeting golf because it seems elitist from the outside. There is plenty of land to develop and provide housing for people but they don’t care about that

  35. Correct. Go to google maps and find any golf course. Start zooming out and see how small it is. There is an incredible amount of land to build whatever. Imagine the amount of money it would cost taxpayers to buy all the golf courses.

  36. Lmao whoever made this probably lives across the street from a huge factory. Most likely never been on a golf course to see how much nature thrives.

  37. This is my home course (Jackson Park, Seattle). It’s got a great driving range and it’s a municipal course, so people from all walks of life play there. I fucking can’t stand the type of people that think this is a no-brainer to solve the housing shortage. There are so many other things that can be done before resorting to destroying some of the last green spaces and recreational outlets in the city.

  38. This stuff is happening like crazy in Florida right now. Thankfully you can still throw a rock up in the air and have it land on a course pretty much anywhere in the Tampa Bay Area. Tons of good options.

  39. This is an interesting take as I always saw Tampa as one of the worst areas for high quality public golf courses. Lots of great private courses but no public course in Tampa that I’ve seen has been overly impressive…

  40. I mean realistically golf course in super dry areas are unsustainable af, hard to argue. But so are a million other things

  41. Most of the PHX area courses are minimal water use courses and built in washes/flood plains or on landfills. Some of the CCs have absurd water leases though

  42. IDK, my old local course (prior to me moving) spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to renovate so they use only reclaimed water now. Granted, the fairways also became smaller and tighter, but the course was able to survive in what's technically a desert.

  43. I'm sure the people that used to be golf course adjacent will love what a 40k person housing project will do to their property values and general quality of life LMAOOOOO

  44. If we aren’t going to talk about the cost of construction and acceptable rates of return for development, that’s the elephant in the room

  45. We did this! They were called projects! They failed and the housing and infrastructure around them went kit and caboodle as well. Look at Detroit!

  46. And rent will only be $2200 a month!!! They seem to forget that building all these apartments don't mean shit when the cheapest apartment in socal is 1600 but you have metal bars all over your house.

  47. People suggesting this are massive douchebags and the reason people don't like liberals even though most liberals won't agree with this because it's stupid. It's more fuck the rich even though everyone playing golf is not rich. No one is building low income housing in these locations anyway. If they build anything it's luxury homes which doesn't solve housing issues. Just angry people trying to get attention being controversial.

  48. What if we quit trying to make everyone live in the inner city? There's so much empty space.

  49. The fuckcars people want everyone living in an 800 sq foot space on top of one another. So that’s going to be a no from me

  50. Worked for a golf course that sold to developers in 2010… they are still building and haven’t sold any houses yet. People underestimate bureaucratic bullshit

  51. I had a coworker (who didn't last long) working a booth with us at a convention. He wasn't wearing the company polo/golf shirt. He insisted his button-down Oxford was better. I sent him back to his room to iron it before our marketing guy got there.

  52. I live in a small town that gas two really nice walking trails that have existed for decades. Well, we had. One was cut into two to make a parking lot (that was never actually paved and is never used). Only a few years later one half of what remained flooded so much that it’s bow about 3/4 impassable. The other is alongside a cliff where they’re making a new subdivision and now all the trees that were uprooted or damage have fallen along a large portion of one side. I expect it will be flooding the trail in about 5 years.

  53. Bay Area resident - they're already here. Local politicians tried turning Mill Valley Golf Course (solid muni for folks around here) into an arts center because "golf is white collar".

  54. My entire town doesn’t have that many people, but has 2 golf courses. I could NOT imagine that amount of population density. No thank you. These people can go to hell.

  55. Ah yes. Dense tree lines, dense road ways to and from work. So dense, it could take you 2hrs to go 30 miles. Ah yes Dense, because we really need more people to move to the most populated areas.

  56. How tf you fit 40k people living on 1 golf course? Most entire towns don't even have 40k and are hundreds times larger.

  57. Ah yes, let’s remove a privately owned business to put up “sustainable public housing” to increase the opioid epidemic

  58. Most of these geniuses won the birth lottery and have tasked themselves with solving everyone else’s problems. There is no arguing with them. They also assume that the golf courses only use city water…

  59. Bro there are enough homes and apartments to house everyone at perfectly affordable rates. No need to take down recreation and greenery within city bounds. What does need to be changed is the accessibility of existing housing and stopping people who are plundering the market ruining things not even related to housing, like golf, for everyone.

  60. I live 2 miles from this golf course… I’ve played it dozens of times. I’m also an architect who builds/designs mixed use developments like they are proposing.

  61. If my memory is correct, that course isn't really suitable for building. Cost of keeping it as is vs regrading and building materials is WAY off profitability.

  62. Downvote away… I love golf. I ALSO realize it is not sustainable long term with water becoming a more important resource. Especially in areas where there is constant drought and threats of wildfire. (I.e. the entire west.) I get the push back from non-golfers and understand the point.

  63. Depends on how you do it. You know golf in Belgium has no water on anything but a tiny amount during the summer and they are doing just fine. This is the future of golf. The North American style of golf is going the way of the dodo. Golf in Europe and the UK is miles ahead in sustainability. We just need to learn it here.

  64. Yeah there’s some serious rude awakening coming to the industry. Need to look into drought tolerant course design I think.

  65. in the west a lot of them are watered with treated shit and piss that you can't really use for other purposes but irrigation. that water is going into the groundwater table too which doesn't seem like a bad thing either. fairways and rough and such is a lot drier and scraggly looking than you might be used to out east. nothing deep enough to hide your ball or anything like that for most munis even though that happens two days after a rain in the midwest.

  66. Yes let's Force all the wildlife out of the green spaces, Increase the amount of concrete and pollution. Just to feed the pockets of wealthy developers who destroy the environment, profit off dense housing, and build bottom dollar s#*$.

  67. I’m a golf coach and my kids practice here. Would they take soccer fields away? Makes me so angry. Some people just don’t get it

  68. Idk about you guys, but some of the courses around my town are basically nature reserves. Off the top of my head: Olympic View, Cordova Bay, Highland Pacific... These courses host a wide variety of wildlife. Especially Cordova: they put a lot of work into making the course habitable to all kinds of birds in particular, and they also grow food on site for the clubhouse restaurant.

  69. Nothing like building homes for the disadvantaged right in the floodplain. They say this like the golf course was built on prime land.

  70. If they're willing to buy the land from the previous owner, fine. God knows, there's no end of golf courses that have suffered that fate.

  71. At least in my city when those people try and suggest this for the city courses the parks board just says that its classified as a park, so no way. and that the end of it.

  72. Yeah that’s not 40,000 fucking people either. Don’t know where these dumbasses got that number from but you’d need a lot more house than 18 holes worth of 165 acres. People are stupid.

  73. There's a small group of people in that thread arguing that disc golf is a superior sport and the land should be used for disc golf courses. And they think normal golf is stupid.

  74. Is no one going to talk about the 250 people per house they are proposing (40,000 / 160 = 250)? Or where did they pull 40,000 from and why is it relevant?

  75. What if we took a wonderful tree-lined dense walkable neighborhood and turned it into a golf course? Some trees would of course have to go except on the eighteenth, gotta hit your target off the tee or you won't have a look at the green.

  76. These “eco warriors” seem intent on the idea that people want to live in these “walkable dense living areas” when the opposite couldn’t be more true for me- I love my place where I have to drive to SEE my neighbors house!

  77. dont worry, not a single person who subscribes to that garbage subreddit will ever contribute to society in any meaningful way. their opinions are worthless

  78. Two courses in my area shut down permanently during Covid. One is being turned into a housing development and the other looks like it’s being farmed. My heart sinks every time I drive by.

  79. That subreddit is a strange group of malcontents. They hate golf because only rich people play 🙄 but they like parks so go figure. I mean building a big group of low income apartment buildings together.... What could go wrong? 🤣🤣

  80. Idk building, adding pavement, using lumber/resources, displacing wildlife, etc. seem a lot less sustainable to me

  81. This is Jackson Park in Seattle. Before the pandemic this was on the cities agenda. They were thinking of shutting down the course because it wasn’t making any money. Now that golf has exploded in popularity, the course is making a bunch of money and the city stopped the charge to close it down. I literally talked to a guy that works there there like Friday morning about this.

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