1. Makes me almost regret having read all the books beforehand. I got about 10 minutes into the 2nd episode this evening, 20 minutes ago, and came here to see how everyone else felt once I realized it was really hard to watch. I'm only now aware of everyone's opinions and, for one of the few times in history, I completely understand the outrage. It isn't small stuff, it's huge. It's like a completely different Master Chief, Halsey, Keyes, etc. You name a character and it feels like they got a vague sense of their personality and then ignored even that. Seriously, every "new" character is a legitimate surprise to me. "Ohhh, that's Halsey? I'd have never guessed cause this lady is a pushover with no wits or teeth to bite back at ONI and Fleetcom."

  2. The best thing about those details is the tragedy implied by John never carring about it. Some part of his humanity was lost and that missing part is what would have allowed him to have those feelings. Halsey removed the ability for her 'dog' to bite back for the harm she caused him. It's almost Shakespearean the nuances of their relationship and it all goes unsaid which makes it mature in its handling.

  3. That’s why his line from Halo 4 (surprisingly) is so touching. “Cortana I…” he doesn’t know how to process things and his inability to articulate whatever he’s feeling whether it be telling her how much she means to him (platonic or romantic is up to each of us to decide), speaks volumes. WE understand what that means and within context for how we understand how he reacts and his limited emotional range was just a great bit of characterization.

  4. The best part about the relationship between cortana and chief is the fact the cortana is a robot that acts like a human and john is a human that acts like a robot

  5. Even back when he was a kid John always had an incredibly strong sense of determination and duty, with a desire to accomplish goals almost exclusively. I’m sure he didn’t particularly liked being taken away from his parents but it wasn’t this super tragic thing that haunted him for the remainder of his life. But he’s a fictional character so everything is hypothetical

  6. That's a good point and this is actually something they COULD have played with in the series. Had Chief develop some sort of relationship (non-romantic) with a regular ODST or marine and in the process have Chief notice that there is something fundamentally broken inside of him. And maybe even play with if he could ever get any part of that back or not.

  7. You’ve hit the nail right in the head. I also love the relationship between John and Cortana. The whole “which one is the machine” undercurrent to their relationship is so important in the games and it’s completely missing from the attempt to bring it to TV.

  8. Not even that, just the fact that Halsey in the lore treated them like her actual children, she legitimately cared for them and was aware what she was doing was wrong. She had a bond with them, especially John, and didn't view them as test subjects like they try to portray her in the show

  9. While 343i Chief has been wonderfully written as a character. Your "fans filling in the blanks" is doing some heavy lifting. My biggest disappointment of the show was the fumbling of Halsey. She's by far the most interesting Halo character and painting her a villain is selling her short.

  10. This comment, this comment actually reads into the show and the games in a way that most 'fans' seem incapable of. These opinions come across as valid because they're reasonable, they're opinions that can be defended beyond "well I don't like it".

  11. I think it’s also possible to find a way for Chief to start caring and resenting Dr. Halsey without being such a whiny little bitch about it. Subtext and implied emotion are concepts that 343 simply does not understand.

  12. Yeah, in the books you can tell Chief is like “i know this was morally problematic, but I don’t know what i would be without it, so i cant make a judgement on it”

  13. I don't think Spartans "don't care "about it , they don't worry about it . I thought most of them found themselves to be better for humanity as a Spartan than a civilian and even then most would of been part of the unsc anyways.

  14. Pablo is an excellent choice to play a live action chief, the writing however is abysmal even for a standard TV show.

  15. I cant help but feel like his character arc on American God's was part of them seeking him out for this role. Was able to show such good range with that role, and the story was pretty good too so it wasn't a functional handicap. Pablo did a great job with the material he had to work with.

  16. It's still partially Pablo's fault. I can't wrap my head around people that say "DONT BLAME THE ACTORS". Like, yes, I agree in a game of thrones situation where the quality was high and then dropped.

  17. Maybe he can act but he's a grade A whiner on his twitter account and doesn't in any way shape or form give off the vibe of 117.

  18. Honestly the helmet isn't even that big of a deal breaker I think it's more just a symptom of the larger problem being the writing/direction

  19. They ruined Trek (except for Lower Decks) and now they are working on ruining Halo. Wonder what sci-fi franchise is next on the chopping block.

  20. Let’s not pretend 343 isn’t complicit in this process. Kiki Wolfkill, Bonnie Ross, and Frank O’Conner (especially; he’s been with Halo since the Microsoft acquisition of the IP) are all executive producers on the show. It is still their IP. They could easily step in and say “no, that’s not canon,” “no, that retcons existing lore,” or “no, that just doesn’t happen/wouldn’t make sense.” They LET the writers ruin the lore. I painfully kept up with the show. I almost gave up several times.

  21. Don't rush to defend the actor too quickly, he actually buys into his version of Chief as much as the writers do.

  22. To be fair... I don't know if we can tell if OP is criticizing the writing, or the actor. I can see why you could see it either way.but, yes it is important to recognize the actors are just doing what they're told, they arent the driving, "creative," vision.

  23. It weakens the horror of what the spartan program is. Chief crying about it is one thing, but if he’s so emotionally damaged that he knows nothing else but fighting and orders, that’s really horrific

  24. The thing that makes him interesting is that he fully understands that he and the other Spartans were kidnapped and the moral implications of the program, but his sense of duty and his faithfulness to humanity outweighs his concerns over the past.

  25. Well, he accidentally found himself in the one situation humanity would have been justified to produce genetically altered child soldiers: genocidal alien invasion by a technologically and numerically superior foe.

  26. If I remember correctly in one of the books John talks about being grateful to Halsey. I don’t remember exactly but he mentions that without the spartan program he probably wouldn’t have amounted to much and being a spartan enabled him to do something that was a noble cause.

  27. That's...the entire point? You're not supposed to take that statement at face value and go "welp I guess everything's fine then"

  28. He acknowledged that what was done to create the Spartans IIs was - on some level - morally wrong but, basically in the same breath, also acknowledged the greater good it was intended to be done in service to (and/or the greater good it actually wound up being in service to) and expressed overwhelming pride at having been chosen to have such an important duty thrust upon him...

  29. Masterchief in the books loves or atleast respects her right? I never took chief for being the kind of person who cares, he was raised to kill and that’s what he likes to do

  30. This line was so fucking good man. It's just a few words but it means so much. Fuck man why is the TV show so shit

  31. I genuinely think about this exchange a lot. It's been months since co. Pleating the campaign and I still dwell on the character chief has become and why he does what he does and how he gets on with it because it's what he is. That is so genuinely inspiring to me. I'd say I'm generally a lazy person and trying to embody that get it done attitude from Chief really kicks my ass in to gear. I love it and it's part of why I find the implications by the show so insulting. Implying this "game for kids" just has a faceless robot man with no character. You don't need ti take off the helmet, you never did.

  32. When he took the helmet off it was a bit of a surprise. Now he doesn't wear it at all, it's dead to me. Like I get it, let there be a mask off scene so the actor gets recognition, but not the whole fucking series.

  33. Child soldiers being indoctrinated into being proud of their role and justifying the crimes committed against them is much more unique, realistic, and compelling than induced amnesia or mind manipulating drugs played up for cliched cheap drama.

  34. You know. This is probably the real reason they did this, not because they wanted to bring in those unfamiliar with Halo. Microsoft and 343 most likely knew that they couldn't get their Halo made in live action without Hollywood changing it so they just said 'fuck it, it's now non canon' just to cover their asses when thr fans hated it.

  35. I know we all have our problems with 343 industries (although I still am enjoying halo infinite right now, despite its faults) but one of the things 343 is really good at is finding a sense of pathos and emotion in Master Chief even though he's a taciturn guy. Halo 4 really shows off that talent, but they also do it a lot to a certain extent in the Halo Infinite campaign.

  36. If they'd literally read a single book or played a single game they could've picked up on these giant, important characteristics of Halo and it's portrayal.

  37. I mean they are doing a good job pushing people to play halo because infinite is more halo then the tv show

  38. I'm not a fan of the games so much as I'm a fan of watching the story on youtube and loving the lore/world building for the games. Even I quickly lost interest after the first two episodes since it quickly went off the rails and completely misunderstood the characters and the dynamic between them.

  39. They seem to have picked and chose what they wanted. The broader scope stuff. Earth, Spartans, Covenant are obviously in place but the nitty gritty stuff which in a lot of ways gives meaning to the macro stuff seems to be significantly altered.

  40. They needed to adopt an alternate timeline where they could take narrative risks without disrupting canon.

  41. How disconnected is Xbox from their first party studios. They spent how long and delayed a game how long only for it to come out as like an early access tech build. We get a show that has the words Halo on it. But they could've called it Zelda as well and it would have made just as much sense.

  42. I get the feeling they are lining up all these stuff for some emotional upheaval that causes him to never remove the helmet again. Terrible writing

  43. Thanks to these absolute douchecanoes at Paramount, I will never know how many anti-aircraft cannons appeared on-screen due to my chronic inability to distinguish and enumerate objects. SMH

  44. I'm worried about the Mass Effect show that Amazon is making. Judging by their disregard for the source material of Lord of the Rings and Wheel of Time on their adaptations, I ain't expecting the ME show to be good. Jesus, imagine Liara's or Garrus' design in live action, oh my god.

  45. Clearly they only had a generic scifi plot and decided to slap the halo name on it for publicity

  46. One of the things I've always loved about the Halo universe, is the throughline of no one having any ego. Everyone has been raised and living through a war that is for survival, so there are barely any petty squabbles or need for people to prove themselves. Everyone is in one way or another, just doing it all with the mindset of "we need to help each other".

  47. Actors are awesome, I would have picked them as my cast. The writing and direction are ass, and whoever at 343 approved this should be fired or moved imo.

  48. I don’t think they had a say in it. Microsoft owns the license while 343 is team that makes the games. It’s on Microsoft execs for giving the studio that made the show so much creative control.

  49. I thought SEGA was the only company that hates their iconic franchise, but oh man, 343 takes the cake. Not only they hate their franchise, but they hate their fans too, they always make the experience as miserable as possible to make us suffer more. At the very least, SEGA loves their fans, despite their hilarious incompetence on the Sonic franchise.

  50. Honestly chief is way to fucking emotional in the TV series it just makes me feel weird seeing him like that. Imagine if they had Joseph Staten help along writing the script for the Halo TV series, working along directing the show would've been amazing to see. The writing from the video games, the lore from the books... wasted potential.

  51. I haven’t made it past episode three yet (just life stuff) but I think I’ll focus on it being this, than what I actually want the show to be just so I have a chance of liking it. But I don’t know if even that will help.

  52. Wait until you find out what they did to Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, John Connor, Joel Miller, Vicious, James Bond, He-Man, Jaime Lannister, and Doctor Who.

  53. Fuck. This series was like GoT all over again...except it skipped the good stuff and went straight for season 8.

  54. I think my favourite part of the movie was chief beating the snot out of two adult marines while he was still a kid.

  55. I read the line in the left in the beta John voice, but the master chief line so clearly reverberates in my mind in chiefs voice.

  56. See, I think the actor is doing his job just fine. Its the writing that is terrible. The writing is so very terrible. The worst writing ever. Of all time.

  57. I still very much believe they could've taken the Chief exactly as he is in the games, and it would've worked perfectly in a show, even with him as the main character. We don't need every show to spell out the tragedy of the characters, and transform subtext into text. The main storyline of Halsey kidnapping a number of kids and transforming them into supersoldiers that end up saving humanity is obviously a fucked-up context for Chief. But when it seems he doesn't mind it, it makes him that much more powerful of a character, not in strenght, but in what he is as a person. To me at least, Halo is mainly an amazing, almost non-stop battle, sprinkled with questions that translate directly into the real world (the whole idea of art representing the real world, and being able to learn from it). Like in Halo Infinite, as mixed as its story might be, it is one of the most powerful moments in the whole evolution of Master Chief, when he grabs Escharum before he dies, and respectfully listens to his final words. And then, explaining, that Escharum "at the end was just a soldier", like himself. I am 100% convinced you can have scenes like that in a show and have it be successful, without watering it down with characters saying literally what they feel.

  58. I’m sure John is angry at doctor Halsey but it’s a slow build up as he is becoming more human each game, not taking his helmet off and screaming about it like a child

  59. I'll probably get downvoted got this. The original story is better told in books and the games. I think it likely would have been even more boring if they kept everything the same for the jump to live action.

  60. The showrunners were too cowardly to make it a Cortana centered show and let master chief be the stoic force of nature that eventually learns how to be human

  61. I absolutely despise how they turned show Halsey into some evil super villain. It's like they hired Karen Traviss to write the show script.

  62. I actually really like the actor that plays chief, the show is just written terribly. He plays the leprechaun in American Gods and he’s really good

  63. I've decided to watch the show as a sci-fi show and ignore all the characters and references to the game. I must admit, it's become a much more enjoyable show for me. It's a decent show, just is such a horrible Halo show. I felt the same way about Superman Returns. I watched it as a show about a super powered alien who looks human, and not a Superman movie. And it works surprisingly well that way.

  64. To be fair, if Chief acted like the left picture it would totally make sense and definitely be compelling and wouldn’t be bad. That is the least bad thing about that show. There are so many bad things about the show to choose from.

  65. Pablo is another victim of dog shit writing. It isn’t really #notmychief so much as #whothefuckokayedanyofthisgoddamntravestyofashow

  66. Kai jumping on to the ship and screaming "what's my real name" has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen on TV. No soldier is going to forget a lifetime of training and start throwing tantrums like that.

  67. Because you'd be fine and dandy finding out everything you know is a lie and everyone you love and depend on has been lying to you since childhood.

  68. Well when you've been indoctrinated into a military life at the age of 6 and were never given any sort of emotional support you probably wouldn't even be emotionally mature enough to act like he does. Instead he acts on what he knows, his military training and experience which forms the cold stoic soldier we know and love. Not the overly emotional cry baby whose emotions put himself, others, and humanity in danger because he's sad.

  69. So, I still haven't watched any of the show. But based on the posts and comments, it's sounding like a "The Last Airbender M. Night Shamalan" situation. Too bad. Could've been great.

  70. Just cancel the damn fucking show and give it to someone that’s actually passionate about the Halo universe. That could run for a decade long with all the story arcs!

  71. That’s the worst thing, the cast is pretty much perfect, chief, blue team, Halsey, Miranda they’re all good actors, the only ones who aren’t just fumbling the ball but straight up throwing it out of the field are the writers. And we fans will get shit for „hating on actors and everything about the show“. NO! Production design, casting, editing (for the most part), vfx, are all great, the only ones who shouldn’t even be hired for a childrens show are the writers. I cannot even think about one single redeeming thing that they did to the overall story that made their „vision“ better or at least on par with the original. They just wanted to do their own weird thing and used OUR beloved halo as a fucking stepping stone. It’s disgraceful.

  72. Maybe you should try watching it instead of listening to the masses. You might like it. Or not.

  73. I don’t understand why people are crying about the TV series so much. It’s ANOTHER STORY. Dude I’ve read all the books and now you’re telling me I get the opportunity to have another story for halo? Sign me the fuck up

  74. It's because it's not just a bad Halo show, but also just a bad show in general. Low quality cgi, not even bothering to make prop guns, or in some cases remember to paint the ones you did make. Low quality cheesy plot, very limited action despite being an action oriented franchise. It's syfy original soap opera quality peddled as an AAA halo tv show. Pretty easy to see why people are disappointed even if you don't even like halo.

  75. John facing the reality of being more or less a child soldier is interesting. But man him just whining about it for 8 episodes is just so boring. Like, I know people meme about media "subverting expectations" but like would it not be SO much more interesting if he would suddenly turn around and defend Halsey, deciding that he is content (and maybe even happy) with the cards that he was dealt? Like that opens the doors for another conflict, like wtf is Miranda and UNSC going to do when their super soldiers refuse to defy their morally scrupulous maker? But no, complex and interesting characters whose motivations extend further than "good things are good" is not something one can have I guess.

  76. Being a tool isn't complicated or interesting because once he's satisfied with that role he can't grow as a character anymore or be used to make anyone else grow either. There are ways to make interesting characters out of shitty people but wanting to be cattle is the most degusting thing a human can want.

  77. The greatest part about this rage against the show Chief is, this is exactly the point of the show. The difference in timelines is THIS decision. In the books, Halsey tells them the truth right away and explains to her AI Deja that if they were to wipe their memories they risk everything the show portrayed.

  78. Chief always knew. From the day they were kidnapped Halsey refused to lie to them about the nature of the program or wipe their memories. She felt that doing so would lead to them inevitably finding out and turning against the UNCS.

  79. I actually like how they handled chief and Hallseye’s relationship. Except the one part where he was flying through the air…

  80. Every time a video game adaptation fails miserably I feel bad for the actors, they have almost no say in what happens in the story but since they work on it they are forced to support it even if it isn’t good

  81. So I have a feeling we got this John to appreciate what will be done with him in season 2. After that finale I have no doubt season 2 will be a more "video game" version of chief.

  82. Yeah but isn't his reaction to this partly because Halsey wiped his memory about the kidnapping and everything? Which is a method Halsey refused to use in the books because of this very reaction being predicted?

  83. I hate the left Halo 4 and 5 focus on chief's backstory and the Halo show did the same. MAKE A GOOD STORY FIRST THEN SPRINKLE IN A REFERENCE TO THAT.

  84. There is so much baseless hate for the show on this reddit. Most of y'all haven't even seen the series and it shows. It's definitely not faithful to other Halo content, but it doesn't claim to be. Plenty of shows have used an original IP and made a complete separation from the stories/cannon. This version of Chief is certainly nothing like the games but that is not a reason to shit on the show. If you can't accept that, then the show isn't for you. To be honest, I'm not sure they wrote a story that Halo fans would be excited to watch, but it's not bad writing at all on its own. It's definitely not your Chief but it was never supposed to be. Let's not act like they failed at recreating the games plot in TV form, it's just something entirely different from the games. I am really enjoying the show so far except I don't think Chief and Makee should have fucked. That could have not happened I think

  85. There was a lot about the show I didn’t like but what I did like kept me watching. I think In the next season with all of the emotional trauma out of the way we’re going to see more of the chief we know and love. Helmet on, cold and calculated.

  86. Call me crazy, but I still liked the show despite being a day 1 CE buyer, Halo 2 alpha tester, read most of the books, etc.

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