More reports cast doubt on police response to Uvalde school shooting

  1. Arredondo's story about believing he wasn't in charge is total bullshit. In incident response there are rules for who is in charge under what circumstances. The first thing he would have done on arriving is find out who is in charge of the incident and determine whether he should take charge or not. He should have known by name exactly who is in charge and if he didn't, that in itself is incompetence worthy of firing.

  2. Pete didn't take his 2 (TWO) radios with him. 1) had an antenna that struck him when he ran and 2) the other radio wouldn't clip on his belt.

  3. In almost every movie and TV show, the problem is always that too many people want to be in charge. Uvalde seems like the opposite where nobody wanted to take charge.

  4. Not an excuse, but Texas is like the only state that doesn't follow the FEMA Incident Command System. He said he thought someone else had taken command, but in the ICS all transfers of command are done face to face to ensure this doesn't happen. So if they followed this system, there wouldn't be any confusion. It's still kind of odd that he would choose not to act without being sure this was the case.

  5. Ask someone in your team to set up a online meeting and tell them to not join it. Wait and see how long it takes before someone takes charge of an non emergency non face to face meeting. By default the person who set up the meeting (in this case officer who got there first and has most info) in case there is no such person then senior most person becomes charge and if that doesn't happen then within 1-2 mins someone end up taking responsibility. Have you set in a meeting for 1 hour without anyone saying anything or discussing what they were doing there ?

  6. At this point there aren’t any doubts that they royally messed up, but there are doubts as to if they’ll ever be held accountable. “In other news Firemen now refusing to run into burning buildings”

  7. Whether it is Police shooting unarmed suspects or failing to respond during a school shooting society has a hard time holding the police accountable. A lot needs to change.

  8. People will be rightfully angry that these cops won’t be held accountable for a complete and utter failure to do their jobs, and Blue Lives Matter people around the country will whine that we don’t worship cops hard enough and stuff like this prevents them from doing their jobs.

  9. This is not really an apt comparison. Firefighters do encounter situations where it's better to let the building fire exhaust itself than to risk life & limb for property damage to only one building.

  10. When we praise first responders broadly, we should exclude the police. It’s not fair to firefighters, EMS, and other actual courageous heroes.

  11. They. didn't. try. the. door? REALLY? It may have been unlocked? OMG And the chief of police didn't know if he was in charge? Jesus, this guy is not fit for command. He needs to resign just for that reason, never mind the incompetence and cowardice.

  12. Seriously. If you’re the Chief of Police for the school district, you assume that you are in command until someone higher up arrives on scene and physically takes command from you.

  13. Or because he's not capable of running without his radio falling off him which is why he didn't even have that on his body during this whole thing.

  14. Yes but you have to see it from their point of view, there was a man with a gun behind that door! They could have been shot in the full body armour! How terrifying!

  15. The Police are trickle-truthing the public as usual. The FBI should be sniffing around that corrupt department and leaving no stone unturned.

  16. They are. It was reported that both the FBI and Texas's Stat IA (don't remember their actual acronym) are investigating the police force.

  17. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the cops ignored a phone call from the shooter laying out his plan the day before. Or even helped him carry ammo into the school.

  18. I was just watching a Netflix show about the Andrew Finch's case. He was the victim of a swatting prank. Dozens of police surrounded his house. The guy came out of the door, not knowing what was going on, with his hand up, then one of the psycho cop shot and killed him from afar with a rifle. The cop wasn't even charged.

  19. God I hadn't thought about that story in awhile and then my wife watched that show and I remembered how fucked up it is. And even more so now with his adopted daughter and boyfriend's suicides. The guy who called the swat got what he deserved, but it makes my blood boil that he'll be sitting in prison for 20 years while the cops wouldn't even admit they fucked up, let alone held the murderer accountable. And then seeing Andrew's poor mom speaking at a city or county town hall and the commissioner trying to shut her down... The world isn't fair

  20. A guy comes out of his house, with his hands up. Some idiot shoots him because apparently he thinks this guy has telekinetic powers or something. Idiot never gets charged for anything. Something about that seems wrong to me, can’t imagine what.

  21. Gotta feed the war fetish! What should we expect when we train police to view their time with the people as occupying a foreign area as you would in war? Behind the Bastards did a great series on how the police are trained and by whom.

  22. I’m pretty sure there will be a lot more “mores” before the word “reports” after this is all said and done.

  23. It doesn't help that those involved immediately took the approach of silence & obfuscation.

  24. It's not the number of reports, it's the consequences. It's highly unlikely they'll have any consequences other than maybe some of them being fired (aka move to another town and get rehired). Due to lack of consequences, there's no reason for anything to change.

  25. What’s the official verdict on how much time needs to pass after an incident before you say you accidentally shot some kids during it? I guess straight after whenever the next school shooting is?

  26. Even if these useless dumb fucks never release bodycam footage and audio, the damage is already done. They have proven themselves to not only be a bunch of incompetent idiots, but they're also a bunch of lying scumbags and cowards.

  27. Even if they're not prosecuted, I would be ok knowing they'd suffer from crippling guilt for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen as I'm sure they'll find a way to blame it all on the libs, drag queens and pro-life folks.

  28. Cowards. It’d be bad enough if this had been a building full of adults but they let little children be murdered to save their skins.

  29. At this point I'm convinced the cops killed at least one kid, if not more. The shadiness and deception seem far beyond "we didn't go in soon enough."

  30. Cops also carry a special tool for opening locked things. I've forgotten the name for it but I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that they had one in this situation and didn't use it.

  31. They got the keys from the janitor. You think the janitor can't pick the master key off their keyring in 2 seconds? Also: the chief of the school police doesn't have a master key to the school he's supposed to be policing??

  32. They were not outgunned. An AR15 is not some world beating rifle. Any handgun chambered in a normal pistol caliber is plenty sufficient to take out any target that lacks armor. The chief saying they were outgunned is very concerning. It's concerning that the fucking chief of police doesn't seem to have a rudimentary idea about firearms and their capabilities.

  33. In addition, I'm not sure how "outgunned" refers to one teenager with an AR15 against multiple armed police officers in tactical gear and shields.

  34. Especially with the militarization of police equipment these days. Every police department should be well defended from assault rifles, especially after the North Hollywood shootout in 1997 where cops were faced a situation where they were under gunned/armored. Taxpayers have been paying for this shit for decades and Uvalde didn't even use it.

  35. And they don’t even have a legal requirement to protect us. They’re literally given raises and new toys for being cowards

  36. But if they just had a little more gear they def would have done something. I'm thinking 60mm mortar rounds... Better increase their funding again, you know, for all the good work they're doing.

  37. It’s helpful for them to own it for the purposes of intimidating those less equipped than they are, but once they are even close to being challenged, they back down.

  38. I cannot for the life of me understand why Chief Arredando hasn't voluntarily resigned out of guilt and shame. A police department needs to have the trust of the public it is meant to protect and serve. If I had fucked up this bad I would go hide under a rock and not come out until nobody remembered my name.

  39. Agree. If he won't do it voluntarily, he should be fired. Who could ever trust him again to protect them, if he couldn't protect helpless children??

  40. You start investigating one department people will want the same done everywhere. Before you know it half the police department in america are going to be found guilty of something. That ain’t a good look.

  41. They shot a kid, a teacher, or both. It's the only thing I can think of for this desperation to cover this up like it's a national security issue.

  42. Don't worry, I'm sure they followed proper procedure and sprinkled some crack on their bodies after they shot them. I mean, they are professionals after all.

  43. I think accidentally shooting a student is forgivable. What's not forgivable is doing nothing, which appears to be what was done allowing additional children to be murdered.

  44. When they stopped cooperating and fighting to keep the body cam footage under wraps I immediately though of "The Boys" S01E04

  45. maybe this will the be time that the US gets fed up with the police protect themselves before all else bullshit culture and change things. But I doubt it.

  46. Yep! Had Uvalde been an unarmed homeless guy who miraculously managed to choke himself to death while handcuffed in the back of a squad car the story would have long since disappeared.

  47. It won't be. They'll hide behind the ruling that police are under no obligation to protect the public and we'll all move on and this will happen again.

  48. The US is fed up look at the numbers. It's the politicians who refuse to act and because this shit is gerrymandered out the ass they remain in power. Ted Cruz whole family could be murdered and he'd still fight against stricter gun control.

  49. Gosh, guys, I'm starting to think that "defund the police" movement that we demonized and ignored as a society might have had a good point.

  50. did i hear that reporter correctly? "Lawmakers are coming up on a deadline...because they will be going on a break over the 4th of July"

  51. I bet you anything they shot a child or teacher. That is why they are trying so hard to sweep this shit under the rug

  52. It's a certainty at this point. What's not clear is how many of the 19 dead kids are dead by police bullets. I am sure it is more than 1.

  53. It’s insane how cops can just choose to not release body cam footage. Kinda defeats the whole purpose.

  54. The FBI needs to raid the station, collect every scrap of evidence, and frog march all the cops (and 1 council member) to jail - just until we figure things out.

  55. That entire department needs to be replaced by actual competent people and the current ones need to face charges of negligence. What a fucking disgrace.

  56. They're plain and simple in the second step of the standard law enforcement two step...Fuck up: Cover up. Fuck up: Cover up...and so it goes.

  57. In a moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing... like a coward.

  58. Why are all these news reports repeating that the shooter “barricaded himself”? It’s come out now that the police didn’t even try the door handle (camera surveillance) and the door was likely not even locked.

  59. Its interesting that the only police who responded with a show of force (US boarder patrol) werent on the city payroll while local police were jerking each other off around the corner.

  60. This reminds me of Jim Jeffries talk about gun control. How he says these school cops aren't going to heroes or the solution to school shootings. He was right.

  61. Common sense. In the U.S. we have been gaslighted so hard over the year common sense has become obscure.

  62. I have a growing feeling in my stomach that a report is going to come out from the coroners office saying multiple kids and/or teachers were killed by police gunfire.

  63. I hope they never let this one go. I feel the attention on it has decreased even when the cops have been so bad and even purposely cowardly or denying info.

  64. This story keeps getting worse and worse, especially now knowing that lives could have been saved instead of them dying.

  65. People who lived with the impression that cops had certain responsibilities are finally learning that police are under no obligation to protect individuals.

  66. I might be misremembering this, so apologies if that's the case...but does anyone else remember that in the initial reports of the shooting the gunman was down? I remember that pretty clearly, and then out of nowhere that wasn't the case anymore and a classroom of children died after that. I bring this up to say that it is my belief that the UPD shot and killed a teacher by mistake.

  67. The only reasonable course of action I can see for parents in Texas, a state renowned for it's liberal gun ownership, is to converge on the next school shooting armed. If the police interfere consider them accomplices and take action. If police are not required by the courts to "protect and serve", which they aren't, then they are at best useless and at worse a legal, armed crime syndicate.

  68. At this point it almost seems possible that the police were in on the massacre. I don’t actually believe that, but it’s frankly not that much less plausible than their stated excuses, which is pretty damning

  69. Get rid of qualified immunity, make police carry their own insurance similar to medical professionals and make body cam footage record all the time and released to the public when there's an incident

  70. Reportedly the hallway video shows the shooter going in and out of the room, so the door may not have been locked and if so, the police are lying about that also.

  71. There is a Senate hearing going on as we speak. It is being broadcast live on YouTube. Someone testified that the lock on that door did not lock from the inside and was malfunctioning. The lock on the door did not engage into the strike plate. The school administration knew about it.

  72. I’d be doing everything I could to hold this police department accountable. These poor people, it makes me sad for them and scared for the rest of us because we are at the mercy of psychopaths and cops who don’t give a flying fuck about doing their job unless they can harass minorities.

  73. Cops can get away with anything including murder, short of video evidence and sustained, widespread protesting over months and months.

  74. Can’t wait for the Netflix doc on this. Feels like a massive fuckup followed by a massive coverup

  75. So pretty much everything they've said was a lie, all the way down to even checking doorknobs to see if they were locked. Holy shit talk about keystone fucking cops

  76. They could have saved lives. They could have stopped the shooter. But they didn’t and they’ve been lying about it since.

  77. With this level of secrecy I wouldn't be surprised if one of those coward cops accidently killed a kid.

  78. They should make a Hollywood movie about this incident. Show this nightmare situation and have the cops standing outside for an hour of actual screen time. Maybe then America will wake up to how messed up the police response was

  79. Seeing the photo of them inside with riot shields and rifles 20 minutes in, and knowing they cowered there and that the children (!!!) Were more brave, and used their training and called for help and hid, more effectively than these cops who stood, we now know only feet away, inside, behind shields and armor, hearing the screams and shots; not outside! Right there; and NONE of them tried; it chokes me up typing this to think the kids were more brave.. just chokes sad

  80. Is it surprising to anyone that more of these revelations come out? The city wants the police chief to resign as he continues to sit in silence. Innocence doesn’t hide.. he should take responsibility and step down. The whole world already knows how bad you messed up

  81. I’ve never understood the Japanese concept of seppuku more than now. These cowards have traded the blood of children they were sworn to protect for every moment of life they now enjoy. Ending it isn’t enough to make that right, but it’s still the most they can do, and as such the only halfway honorable option imo

  82. Is there ANYMORE doubt that can even be thrown at them? I feel like the world's doubts have all been bundled up, continually confirmed, and delivered to the front door of the physical Uvalde Police Department. I don't think the nation/world has had anything in a very long time as uniting as knowing UPD mishandled this/screwed up.

  83. As far as I know we’ve collectively moved on from “the uvalde police did jack shit to stop an active shooter from murdering children” to “the uvalde police may have actually killed a teacher or children in the process”. This was preceded by some unprompted and alarming statements made the Uvalde PD such as “All of the people killed were definitely from the active shooter”. Every single new piece of information that comes out about this always looks bad for the PD so it’s gonna be real interesting when all the details emerge

  84. Are folks watching the texas senate hearing right now? I think anyone in this thread that are closely following developments need to watch it.

  85. It is eventually going to come out that these incompetent chucklefucks shot at least 1 kid, and the inbred bootlickers over at

  86. In 2006 in Canada, a place with a short list of school shootings, two police officers who were at the school for a drug call followed a shooter in the building because of their training and managed to stop the shooter before he could kill more than one person. They had regular bulletproof vests and standard guns.

  87. Chief ran inside like Rambo with his rifle instead of manning the command post? Yeah, I’ll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet.

  88. Most stories I read still credit the police with killing the suspect. Yes the man was some sort of LE officer, but no affiliation with Uvalde PD. The Uvalde PD should be dispanded.

  89. I really think all the officers who responded should take manslaughter or murder charges for all of the children murdered in that school. Their inaction is why the children died, it’s their fault and they are guilty for not acting. They may not have gunned down an innocent minority but they did do nothing with a man was murdering children. Losers and cowards. That goes for anyone with a badge, they get them to feel power and think they are tough. Good thing that even if they are held accountable the tax payers will pay out lawsuits. The officers at most will get a slap on the wrist. The whole country is watching. The problem is police haven’t ever cared they’ve been a protected class of people for damn near their existence. They are pretty much untouchable. Maybe they fired a few of them they’d still get a job somewhere else being a coward and murderer.

  90. If that is the case the coverup is worse than the truth. Accidentally killing a hostage is understandable in a shootout, waiting for them to all be executed so you can go in safely is not.

  91. At this point you could take the word “accidentally” out of that statement and I would still believe it

  92. There's a scene In saving Private Ryan where Tom Hanks asks who's in charge. The soldier looks at his helmet for a second and says "you are, sir"

  93. They are going to spin ALL the small details of this story non-stop, until what they say will resemble nothing like the truth

  94. “Cast doubt” is an odd choice of words. That makes it sound like anyone believed they did something right.

  95. If the police had put as much effort into stopping the shooter as they have into this damage limitation then it might not have been such a horrific outcome for everyone

  96. The school district police chief was there within 3 minutes but "didn't know he was in charge" what the fucking fuck, these punk ass losers have tried every excuse imaginable. Why the hell would you not have shot BEFORE he went into the school?! Kids weren't outside!! The whole thing could've been prevented! They failed over and over. Disgusting.

  97. AT this point, all the cover up is doing is shining a light onto the situation more powerfully. They clearly screwed up. Based on what we know right now their response was negligent enough that the entire force needs to be fired. I suspect that there should be some criminal charges filed as well.

  98. I wouldn’t he surprised if someone tries to take those cops out. This coverup is just making things worse and more dangerous for other members of law enforcement. They just need to tell the damn truth and those that fucked up, resign and hope that’s the worst thing that happens. (I’m hoping jail time but I gotta be real)

  99. Ugh yeah. Like the pictures of them in the hallways with riot shields and rifles an hour before anyone decided to muster up enough balls to cross the fatal front. Fucking cowards, the whole lot of em.

  100. As horrid an event as Uvalde is more people will get to see how well of a lying machine police run. If this story was about any other group we’d have all the facts by now. Instead they change their story more than any criminal I have ever seen. Police rape victims report harassment from other police to not come forward. The mother who ran in to save her children was harassed by police to not tell her heroic story because it put on display their cowardice. Can you ever discredit a police rape victim again? Or people who claim police robbed them? Or will you finally take stock of the cops driving out of control and murdering people only to get completely away with it? Reality hurts but it’ll never hurt as much as the victims telling the truth only to have society cast them down and back a criminal organization.

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