[OC] Cost of a 4h surgery and a 1 week hospital stay. I have no insurance. Thanks Italy!🇮🇹

  1. I remember my friends and I (Americans) were vacationing in Spain and one of our friends got bitten by a monkey while walking around Gibraltar. We went to the hospital in Spain and the staff were super concerned and worried for us that we were international and his insurance might not cover the shots. They prefaced that they could work something out if the bill was too much when they handed him the invoice. It was 15€. Mind blown.

  2. Same story with me in Korea. They kept apologizing for the high cost when I had to take my son in for a respiratory treatment. As internationals, it cost us $25. My US copay is $30.

  3. Yeah, I know a girl from the US that settled down in Europe, it takes a while before you can opt into the health insurance system - I asked her if she wasn’t concerned about not being insured: she laughed loud and hard and then explained that health without insurance in Europe is way cheaper than with insurance in the USA. Tells you something about collective bargaining.

  4. I used to work for a company that assisted stufents abroad getting dr visits via their insurance and making payments. Everything was Soo cheap. We found for the first semester students often paid thinking it was their deductible or something. After we started sending them money for the same costs they'd start to call us to make payments. Lots of good staff at the hospitals in Spain (and many other places)

  5. I dislocated my foot in Ireland. Hospital stays, casts, x rays, medicine, specialists, ambulance rides (3 OF THEM)---$250 BILL!!!

  6. I know an (American) guy who found out his ~1 year old son had a brain tumor while he was on vacation in France. They took it out and that was that. If he'd been in America it probably would have ruined them financially.

  7. And my brother in law (Canadian) got food poisoning from a Vegas buffet and ended up with a $5000 hospital bill

  8. Must be crazy to be able to live your life without fear of financial ruin over the slightest injury or affliction

  9. Husband and I (Americans) were in Italy on vacation. Husband got sick and went to an ER. After staying there the whole day and seen by three doctors, including heart specialist. When we were being discharged, the staff apologized for having to pay such a high bill. It was around $250 USD.

  10. LOL. I live in Gibraltar. Have done for nearly 13 years and a monkey jumped on my shoulders and I screamed so loud haha. luckily the monkey didn't do anything, just wanted a piggy back ride

  11. I had an epileptic seizure in Ireland on a school choir trip. Had no bill charged even though I was at the hospital in Dublin for well over five hours.

  12. Italian medical doctor here. Despite the majority of the procedures/drugs are for free, the Italian people still complain when have to pay a small amount of money (and I mean 10 euros or less) for some of them.

  13. I'm Australian and work in a medical clinic. We charge $4aud for a highly experienced nurse to come to your house and change your wound dressing or whatever you need.

  14. Italian here: we don't complain to pay those small fees, we complain for the shitty ER service, overcrowded hospitals and doctors that "Im sorry I'm busy for the next 3 year, your surgery needs to wait. What? You want to come to my private office and pay me in cash? Let's have a surgery tomorrow!!"

  15. i’m from macedonia. i fell of my bike last saturday, got some stiches, xrays, tetanus serum and vax, all for 2.5€. i buy coffee for that price

  16. The majority of people (70%) speak German as their first language so in most places that‘s the first one, but it can vary from time to time with some things being only Italian/only German.

  17. Look how socialised medicine is forcing that poor person to pay their entire hospital bill themselves, without the protection of private health insurance

  18. I am shocked about the fact that he had to pay >50€ for his stay! It’s a sad day for the entire European Union. I am so sorry…

  19. Americans love socialized medicine when the bill comes to them. The issue is contributing to others. That whole 'helping your neighbor' thing is where it falls flat. You would think that a country that is the top in the world in charity would understand the value in doing so.

  20. Thought and prayers to the families of the millions of unemployed "healthcare professionals" who must be roaming the Italian countryside begging for food. You know, accounts receivable people and insurance claims specialists and the people who know what all the billing codes actually mean, and so on.

  21. Yeah fuck that. Went through an extensive MRI scan a few days ago, and had to pay a $19 surcharge afterwards, just because I have a job and not on welfare. It's tax deductible, but still, it's MY money. I was outraged, give me health insurance companies NOW!

  22. irony is that Medicare for All in the US would save so much money for everyone. US health care is literally twice the next first world country and all those countries have better health care.

  23. I’m in Canada and I had to take my kid to the hospital yesterday for some tests. I was there all day, I probably met with 6 doctors, a couple of nurses and a few others that I can’t quite remember. Cost me $25 CAD. That includes the parking and the two coffees that I bought. The best part was, there was no issue at all so I don’t have to go back.

  24. That is so amazing, here in the U.S. I was in the E.R. for 2 hours... $14,900USD before insurance, my out of pocket was $2,900USD and they want the total balance in 12months.

  25. Let's be fair about the Canadian system. I'm Canadian, and what I learned from my experience is that the system works well for those who truly need health care

  26. When my daughter was born we stayed for 24 hours, then had to come back for another 48 hours for phototherapy. Technically it was a semi-private room but we had it to ourselves the entire weekend. They stocked us with formula, diapers, wipes, everything. My only expenses were food and parking.

  27. I'm very thankful to have the healthcare system we do in Canada. I can't imagine what it's like to have any sort of ailment in America :(

  28. I had to pay $500 when I got my back wound cleaned. $250 was from one doctor that I did see, the other $250 was from a doctor who used his signature.

  29. A few weeks ago I crashed my bike into a curb and split my finger in half hitting a fence in the process of braking.

  30. Jeez, I just got a bill from the ER for $900. I had a rash break out on my face. The ER took my pulse, looked at my face, they said we recommend you see a dermatologist. That’s it. $900 AFTER insurance. I refuse to pay.

  31. I dislocated my shoulder snowboarding, went to the emergency place at the ski resort. They gave me some water with sugar and while I was waiting for them to put back my shoulder, I did it myself. they came and gave me a shoulder strap and let me go. The bill came for $1500 with $1300 being the shoulder relocation (the audacity of charging me for what I did myself and something that took mere seconds). I also refused to pay

  32. I went to a hospital after being in a wreck, I was sore but mostly find, they insisted on an mri or cat scan can't remember, was in the hospital for 2 hours give or take. Got a bill a month later for $23,000... and I had no insurance that was 15 years ago, still haven't paid a dime. That's not including the 2500 ambulance ride of 4 blocks

  33. I broke my back when I was 14. 2 weeks in the hospital, surgeries, etc total before insurance kicked in was almost 1 million dollars...

  34. Lol WAYYY more than that, my son broke his arm about 10 years ago, no surgery, just a cast x-ray and shots, about 2 hrs. $8000. This dude stayed for a week

  35. Definitely more than that because when I got into a motorcycle accident and broke my wrist I had surgery to put in a metal plate and 3 days in the surgical ward. My bill came to just over $141,000 with all the bills in total.

  36. Definitely more. I had surgery that took less than an hour was in the hospital for less than 6 hours total it cost $45k.

  37. Dude that's just unreasonable! I'm Italian too and despite everything wrong with my country, since I hopped on Reddit, I am grateful everyday for not being born in the US.

  38. German here, my medication costs north of 1,000 Euros a month. I get 6 different medications, two of which are 500 quid each already. I pay around 40 Euros a month in prescription costs, 10 quid each per medication and two of them are free. The two expensive ones are narcotic analgesics, basically the same medication but different strength. Then there's an antirheumatic, antidepressant, and so on. I really can't complain, I have orthotics on prescription which are free and the same applies to physical therapy and massages.

  39. The thing that really kills me, is whenever I bring up socialized medicine to Americans they look at me like the devil, and it's not just Republicans either, a lot of Democrats there also believe in their horrendous system.

  40. I had an allergic reaction and went to the hospital because it was becoming difficult to breathe. They took my temp, gave me a Benadryl, sent me home and charged me $1,400. I didn’t even leave the waiting area.

  41. Yup. I had a seizure. They did blood tests, EKGs, MRIs, you name it. All I got was an "idk why, lol" and a bill. Much later I had another seizure and I learned to tell the doctors I don't want a fucking MRI, you're not gonna figure anything out and it's gonna cost me $10,000 for you to get the results and say "hmmmm". They don't even ask you for consent, they don't care.

  42. Being from Belgium, such numbers are mind-boggling to me for any hospital bill. I would be really pissed if I had to pay that amount for something trivial as going to see a doctor. That's the price of a small car, a new kitchen/bathroom, a few years worth of vacation.. I really hope the tides will turn for the people living in the USA, because all that corporate greed is just ridiculous/inhumane.

  43. To clear this up: The comma here is used where some of you might use a point. The decimals begin after the comma. This is 53 Euros, ~55USD.

  44. According to the current exchange rates 53,78€ is $56.28. I spent more to fill my car with gas last night. God we need socialized medicine.

  45. My father-in-laws friend was on a ventilator for 2 months due to Covid. His bill came in at about $6,000,000 USD. Fun! Oh and he does not have insurance.

  46. I'm used to the "it's cheaper to fly somewhere and get surgery in public hospital there".

  47. So this is a dumb question from an Australian, but...what happens here? What does he do? Obviously that’s an impossible amount, so does he have to sell everything he owns and declare bankruptcy or what?

  48. The American healthcare system is a joke. Anyone else who thinks otherwise has some kind of brain damage. They should get treated for around 100k+ in medical care

  49. Most Americans realize this. But when you have a government that gives a state like Wyoming with half a million people equal representation as a state like California with nearly 40 million, well this is what you get. The majority are held hostage.

  50. I went to the emergency room about a month ago to get stitches in my finger. The cost? About $500…for the procedure. Simply entering the ER cost me another $600

  51. I sliced my finger while making dinner a few weeks ago and I was so concerned with the cost of stitches that I just let it bleed and prayed I would be okay lmao. Luckily it just looked way worse than it actually was so I didn’t need stitches.

  52. We had a suffocation scare with our baby in March, called 911, and had a one day hospital stay. Our baby was completely fine after tests, but between the ambulance ride and the hospital, we paid $3,000 USD out of pocket. We are lucky enough to have health insurance so the ACTUAL bill was almost $35,000 USD.

  53. Something similar happened to my son. He suddenly started to cry and told my wife he couldn't breath, his head was spinning and felt a pressure on his chest. He quickly became unresponsive. I was working, so she called an ambulance. They came, took them to the hospital, tested both for covid, take some blood tests, ekg and prepared a room for them to stay for the night. The day after i went to the hospital, took him and assisted him during the electroencephalogram, where we discovered he was suffering from epilepsy. Nothing was charged, we live in Italy

  54. I was at the Venice airport waiting for my flight and an old American tourist started chatting to me about how much he liked Italy etc.

  55. It should be noted that he would have to pay in Italy as a non EU citizen, part might be covered by travel insurance. But odds are it might still be cheaper than the US treatment.

  56. Back when I semi-lived in L.A, I would purchase insurance through my bank, 78$ (Canadian dollars) per month to have a full U.S coverage up to 5 million dollars in medical fees.

  57. That’s ridiculous! Especially for the fact he wanted you to pay in full wtf? Most people do not just have a disposable $3,750 laying around.

  58. Lol over the last 1.5 years in NZ i had 2 full anaesthesia surgery/procedures, ~4 local anaesthesia procedures, multiple scans, a total of just over 3 months in hospital including in the high dependency unit, regular visits at home from a nurse and not only was i never handed a bill but considering they fed me 3 (decent) square meals a day, i actually kind of saved money. There's a lot of things wrong with NZ healthcare but the cost of hospital stays is not one of them.

  59. My mother in law slipped getting out of shower and hit her head really bad, spent 2-3 days in hospital in Rome and they were super nice and helpful, did every test under the sun to make sure she was okay, (thank god for google translate!!!!) At the end I asked if they needed her insurance card, which she took down info, but said no charge! I was thinking maybe she would just charge everything to insurance, but, NOPE! Not one thing was ever charged! Thank you Santo Spirito In Sassia Hospital, you were amazing!!!

  60. How did they come up with those prices? Looks like they said "we have to charge something" and just made up a random number.

  61. I spent 45 minutes in an ER with insurance. I received a Covid test, flu test, an EKG, a single lab, and an IV with a saline solution for dehydration.

  62. I had to have stitches in the ER several years back. I never went back to have them removed and instead removed them myself because the cost to have it removed at a doctors office would have been exorbitant.

  63. This makes me want to cry. I had a 3 month hospital stay and major heart surgery and thank god I had good insurance from my parents because the total was over $3,000,000. My part to pay was $15,000. God the US sucks at health care

  64. I have really good insurance and work for a hospital (USA). I was admitted recently and despite me having insurance, they pushed me through as self paying/uninsured. Now I'm getting bills even though I've explained and sent copies of my insurance information to them. The system is a joke here. It's racketeering at the least.

  65. Filing errors are annoying at best and abusive at worst. If you don't know enough about how insurance works to know when and how to dispute a bill, they can and will absolutely fuck you over.

  66. I was thinking did they do it in a shed outback? I can’t even see a specialist and my copay could be $60 (usd). People ask why do I still have roommates at my age. I have a chronic illness and if I don’t they I can’t pay all my bills. I still can’t pay all my bills but at least with the roommate I can pay the “payment plan” amount along with my other bills.

  67. As an American living in Italy I have to say it is so amazing not having to worry about things like this. People are so brainwashed in the states to think the system there makes sense. My wife is pregnant and every time we have a concern we just go to the hospital without any worry about some insane stupid cost.

  68. You are welcome my friend. Welcome to our country, welcome to contribute to our economy and welcome to be able to use our services.

  69. What I laugh at is the old timers in rural bars, complaining the US government sends too much money to foreign governments when we could be spending that money to help americans here in the US.

  70. The US already spends more per person for healthcare than Italy and pretty much every other European country.

  71. Because they want the money to be spent on them right then and there. Not only when they get in trouble financially. Or when it's spent on maintaining the road they drive on, because they don't link the roadwork (which is also an annoyance to them) to the improvement on infrastructure they have been yelling for all along.

  72. One thing to remember about rural people is that they often don't see most of the services taxes pay for. I've got farmers in my family and they live so far in the middle of nowhere any emergency services would arrive too late to do anything. They drive on dirt roads. They don't get any welfare services or offices. They have their own wells and septic fields instead of public utilities. So they view all that as wasted money being stolen from them because they don't benefit from any of that.

  73. When the government pays farmers for failed crops or subsidizes crop and milk costs, it’s fine. Or all the other things farmers get just for listing their land as a farm. (Trump has a chunk of his New Jersey golf course classes as a farm and has someone grow corn on it so he can get the tax write off) One of the riches folks in congress is part of a “farming” family who makes the most money in their Illinois county from farm tax subsidies.

  74. My American brain saw a comma and a medical bill, automatically put in an extra zero at the end and thought “Hmmm…53,780 euro? What is that, like $55k USD? Sounds about right…”

  75. Just love these posts that rub this sort of shit in my face, must be great being able to afford not letting your dad die of cancer because insurance decided it doesn't want to pay for chemo anymore

  76. I met a doctor at the pharmacy. Fitting right? He told me that when he graduated from Dalhousie (Halifax NS) he went to the US where he thought that the work was better. He quickly realised how disheartening it was and came back to Canada.

  77. Yeah, here in Italy there is a problem about the lack of government investments on public healt so a ticket of €10~€20 has become pretty common.

  78. I had a doctor at an in-network facility for my expensive health insurance look at a tick bite and tell me just to keep an eye on it. I just got my bill, $308.00. Insurance covered $76.43. I pay hundreds of dollars a month in premiums and am fined if I don’t carry insurance like this.

  79. You know, we could do this here in America. That way your upcoming colon cancer could be treated and it would pay for your sister’s insulin. That way your not playing medical Russian roulette and your medical issues wouldn’t ruin your paycheck to paycheck way of life.

  80. My personal favorite has always been Glühbirne which directly translates to glow pear means lightbulb. Stinktier = stink animal is a close second. I'm sure you can guess that one.

  81. In Europe, they use the comma the same way we use the decimal point. So OP's bill is like 53 euros and a few cents(?)

  82. It's not really our choice in America to socialize medicine. It's too big of a business. This is like showing off your cake to hungry people saying "this cake is SO GOOD." Our votes don't matter, big medicine's money does.

  83. My dad has cancer and the bills are in the hundreds of thousands, maybe more. Still baffles me that people in the US are so against having their tax money go towards healthcare instead of just going to the military and foreign aid.

  84. OP.....in the US, this would have cost you your house, car, kid's education fund and still leaving you owing. It's not right and putting greed and profit over human lives needs an overhaul

  85. My son needs surgery in his ears, cause he needs tympanic tubes. We will check in at the hospital on Tuesday. Then they will examine him one last time and see if the tonsils need to be lasered also. And I do not have to be scared about costs. I read a lot of horror stories of US health care during the last few days. Like they would only go to the hospital if there is no way around. And my son and I will walk into that hospital and what has to be done will be done. I am not worrying at all about a bill that will make me sweat. I might have to pay 10€/day (I think it‘s for food?) but they wont charge anything for my son. I am very thankful for that.

  86. I’m literally terrified to call my orthodontist about my broken permanent retainer because I know I can’t afford the $200-$600 it’ll be to replace. Also my glasses are broken but can’t get new ones cuz it’ll end up costing $150+ lol but America definitely still the best country in the world!!! /s

  87. I always thought an American had like 5-10% taxes cause of this claim. Then I found out they seem for the most part have like 20-25% versus our 28-33%.

  88. UK here. I've been a regular for A&E and physio for over a year (lacerated my hand from palm to tip of ring finger, then broke my major metacarple in the other hand a month after being discharged from the first injury).

  89. I just ID myself at hospitals, I never seen anything resembling a bill in my life, there's a 20$ patient fee when you sign in to the hospital i guess. But that's also limited to $150 a year so many can visits won't be expensive.

  90. Goes to show you socialized medicine can and will work. Vote for those who are pushing Medicare for All! Set aside your political stance and choose a side that will help M4A. Do you want your parents or yourselves to go broke with medical bills?

  91. In before but socialized heath: Italy has life expectancy of 83.20 years, 5 more than the USA.

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