Police in the U.S. deal with more diverse, distressed and aggrieved populations and are involved in more incidents involving firearms, but they average only five months of classroom training, study finds

  1. For the level of stress, responsibility, knowledge, and skills you would think are necessary, US cops are grossly undertrained.

  2. Also allowed to work overtime, often 24 hour shifts. So you have aggressive, paranoid people that want to use their gun and now they're on hour 20 of being awaked amped up by 500mg of caffeine and whatever else they have in their system and are inserting into a high stakes situation.

  3. Grossly undertrained but the problem is the people that the police career attracts in the first place. Most are just power hungry bullies. Better training is good but the people who go through with becoming a cop in the first place, are often not our "finest"

  4. The problem is not - and has never been - the amount of training police get. It's the attitudes, policies, and behavior they learn from training, and other cops, that are the problem.

  5. if you think the job is to protect people, you are right but its not, its to brutalize people and protect property, they are perfectly trained in that regard.

  6. And a lot of training alludes that non-white suspects will kill them, so guess what happens. Rhetorical question.

  7. Right? Nurses don't get guns to shoot their aggressive assaultive confused patients. Why aren't cops required to get a decent education in criminal justice or forensics or psych?

  8. Ok... but again, "more training" isn't some panacea here. As other researchers and retired chiefs have pointed out:

  9. It can certainly be both. Regardless, 5 months of training is silly for someone trusted with power to end someone's life in a flash of a second

  10. Agreed, but surely mandating longer training/schooling would allow the system more chances to weed out the ones that show terrible judgment under pressure. In Denmark, where I’m from, I believe it takes 4 years to become a cop. Granted, a lot of that is on the job training, but still. The training wheels don’t fully come off for a really long time.

  11. Their courses suck then but it is still a training issue, that is ridiculously short time. It is a 3-year school here even though our police don’t have to deal with all the crazy crap yours does.

  12. Oh pleeease, who are you kidding. Other countries, where police training takes up to 3 years, have none of these issues. It is the training. My god...

  13. That is true to an extent. But the idea behind not paying police officers very highly is that they don't want to attract people to the job who are only doing it to get rich or make a lot of money.

  14. It's not just the quantity of training, but the quality. If their training consists of classes like "

  15. I can't help but be reminded of the introduction to the film Hot Fuzz. Nicholas Angel is introduced as the best damn police officer the City of London has ever seen, but before he joined the force he

  16. In many first-world countries where they don't have a problem with police literally murdering people with impunity, they require a minimum of an Associate's degree equivalent (2 years) while some require as much as a Bachelor's.

  17. Yep. I used to work in a law enforcement capacity up until recently. The experienced cops retired. The “good” cops who are actually morally decent people have mostly left the field. They were tired of the stress of the job while also being completely undermanned and vilified, so they went and got better paying jobs without the inherent danger involved.

  18. The majority it that is not really "training" in a sterile environment, it's literally cutting people's hair under supervision. Much more similar to OJT than a classroom or academy setting.

  19. Maryland requires 1500 hours of training to be a licensed cosmetologist, or 24 months as an apprentice.

  20. Basic police training in my country is two years. And after that they can specialize themselves further if they want with additional training.

  21. That’s the thing most redditors don’t understand. You don’t learn how to be a cop in the academy. You learn how to be a cop in the field.

  22. or maybe fire half of them and use the money saved to make them not cowards and yes, cops are trained to be cowards. if you disagree, uvalde, a 15 year old kidnapping victim recently killed by police, and anyone who has been not brain dead would like to inform you that learning on the job isnt something you should be doing when your job involves having the ability to execute people with zero reprecussions in most situations.

  23. One of the things that I find irritating is how people who have had zero seconds of police training keep trying to equate "police violence" to classroom training time. Like the 400 MILLION guns (mostly easily concealable handguns) don't matter, or like the violent/isolationist/individualistic society with a deep seated anti-authority history doesn't play a part.

  24. My friend is a cop (a really good one) and this is exactly what he says. You can not possibly train someone to be able to handle the amount of cheap handguns in the hands of people who are willing to use them in this country.

  25. Police academy in Scandinavian countries is 3 years with a 6 moth paid internship/apprenticeship as a police trainee at the police department. Selection includes physical test, intelligence test as well as psychological evaluation by a psychologist.

  26. Absolutely right. Combine that with abysmal staffing and contemptuous public opinion. Its an impossibly complicated scenario with no obvious solution. Most importantly these are human beings continuously in incredibly complex violent conflicts with the public. With all the focus on mental health advocacy/acceptance these days the lack of consideration for stress and PTSD within the community is “shockingly” ignored.

  27. You can't claim that bad police are a result of "the environment" and then claim that "police recruiting" is leading to the wrong people being cops.

  28. This is the big part of it that makes me skeptical of the usual criticisms: the comparison to these small European culturally homogenous ethno-states that kept their slave labor and resource imperialism isolated from them thousands of miles away, instead of importing it into the actual country for hundreds of years like the US did, and was able to conveniently leave behind those subjugated populations as if they don't hold any historical obligation to them, while the US has had the difficult process of having to face their grave historical injustices constantly and daily. Until these European countries take financial and moral and systematic responsibility for the African, Asian, Central and South American and Pacific Island populations that they took advantage of for centuries beyond just dropping them and letting them fend for themselves after they've used them up until it became politically unpopular, then there really is no possible fair comparison in my eyes.

  29. Classroom training helps to teach a lot of "why's" that might get glossed over in the field when a situation is developing. Having a base of "why" can dramatically help decision making. On the job training is only as good as your coworker.

  30. It's to teach them higher level stuff than what the coworker can teach. And not be stuck with what the coworker knows.

  31. The rest is in the field training with the field training officer. That's where you get the real skill and knowledge you need to perform your job. If the field training officer isn't the best out there then that's where the ball gets dropped. Of course classroom training is important but to deal with the stress, it's better to have hands on experience with the right leadership

  32. Except for the fact that it's clearly not working. American police is some of the worst in the world by pretty much any metric.

  33. The purpose of police is grossly misinterpreted between the public and the actual oaths, duties, and judicial responsibilities that governs them. Unfortunately they(& military) are the most heavily funded of all govt agencies so it makes sense that they're pushed to interact with so many populations

  34. After a mild google search I found that it's 6 months of Academy training followed by a 6 month period of a probation/training period. The probationary period can either be reduced, extended or even dismissed from training depending on the trainee's performance.

  35. The problem is that psych evaluations aren't an exact science despite what people believe. Have 3 different psychiatrists evaluate one officer and you will most likely get 3 wildly different opinions.

  36. In Canada, many cops are paid as much as engineers. They dont do as much schooling to be justified for that amount - especially since they are dealing with peoples lives.

  37. In the US, Google and Apple engineers start interns that make 2x as much as cops, experienced engineers make 3-4 times more than cops.

  38. I'm kinda into this but unfortunately I think people just zone out. Have you ever been to a driving class? Or done sensitivity or sexual harassment training at work? I skip over all that stuff. It's not because I don't care, but it's just the way courses like that are designed it doesn't really incentivize you to actually pay attention. And the material they have you cover is just not applicable to real-life scenarios.

  39. Classroom time teaches protocols, how to do a job, etc., but it’s the year of field training and probation Officers go through that teach them how to do their jobs that teaches them how to do the job properly. That’s what people and studies need to take into account.

  40. American police are undertrained, overworked, and understaffed, and yet the two political parties either want to A) defund them further or B) allow them to do anything they want

  41. If you want to require more training and stricter hiring standards, you’ll have to pay more and budget for the additional training. This is the actual reason real change is never seen in American policing.

  42. They have to practice cutting hair under supervision for a number of hours, that's not really "training" in the sense if classroom or academy training.

  43. They have the responsibility of someone whose in the military, but the training of someone who works at McDonalds.

  44. Then they have the balls to ask you where you got your law degree from if you know your rights. Knowing damn well they aren’t a lawyer either. Cops truly are dumb bastards.

  45. They are undertrained on purpose. At a minimum rid get of qualified immunity, require personal liability insurance to carry a gun, mandatory law enforcement license exam with 1000 hours of training, including 100 hours of non-lethal de-escalation. If a mental health practitioner is required to do this and more and NOT carry a gun when working with people then it should be good enough for cops. Then watch the mass exodus ensue bc “it’s not fair”.

  46. Police academy training is already around 1000 hours and more than 100 of that is spent on non lethal methods for resolving violent encounters. Also, qualified immunity only stops lawsuits that don’t violate civil rights. Cops are still frequently successfully sued.

  47. The police need to be held to the same standard of military training because these stupid backwater blue stripe supporting dumbasses are too trigger happy.

  48. I think all police officers should go to law school as a requirement to become an officer of the law so they actually know the laws they are enforcing.

  49. Maybe training needs updating to keep up with the massive rise of crime. Take for example here in the US, lots of people stealing stuff from stores and you can see it on social media, especially in San Francisco. Criminals attack passengers on trains in New York, and usually they target women and Asian people. Lots of people have lost respect for the law and innocent people and they're so brazen to commit crimes without regard to the consequences.

  50. My beef with “fund/defund the police” is that they seem contradictory, but only because both are heavily simplified. The point of “defund the police” is actually “decrease police funding and reallocate that money towards other, similar public services or responders like dedicated mental health response teams or increasing public school funding to decrease crime and by extent the amount of work each individual officer is expected to perform and narrow the scope of that work to only what you would need a person with a gun for”

  51. Infantrymen during Iraq and Afghanistan had the same amount of training after getting to their unit and then they went to war. It's called on the job training

  52. Because the Right doesn't want educated, thinking, compassionate humans to protect them from the Big Skewwy Bwack Man. They wanted murderers that hold the same bigoted opinions they do.

  53. Isn't that the same group that also wants to abolish the police? In fact, from what I've seen, that group wants lots of different things, often contradiction each other.

  54. I understand their need for enough bodies in uniform, but there needs to be continued education / training as cops progress in their careers.

  55. Even if we sent them to more training, there is a lot of terrible violence-pushing "training" I don't really want police to have more of anyway

  56. Police are both poorly trained social workers, and poorly trained military. The scope of their work needs to be reduced.

  57. Police departments only hire based on low level cognitive ability and attention span. 5 months is as long as these subhumans can handle before they start talking to themselves in tongues.

  58. ...cue the same old garbage about how supposedly more training will make them not be racist and cruel.

  59. Being a police officer should require a four-year education. It's pathetic and sad we let these people get in on nothing. You can be a high school graduate and then be a police officer carrying a weapon within a year (within a lot but not all departments). And we all know the truth, a lot of these white males (71.5% of our total police force) would be working construction(a respectable job) if they learned they had to go to 4 years of hard education and training. Most of them only ever focus on the physical side of training anyways, they see a police officer as a way for them to exert their physical dominance still even though they're no longer in school. I find the whole profession and the people that it attracts detestable.

  60. I mean, they also let 16 year olds drive big hunks of metal on wheels after only 2 to 6 months of training. This doesnt surprise me.

  61. poor suckers. upholding a excruciatingly corrupt system of exploitation that devastates and contaminates the planet for the overwhelming profit of a few has gotta be tough. looks like pretending that it's anything but brute force and control is getting harder the more the capitalist system digs in under threat from its by-products. oh well

  62. Biweekly training seminars in psychology unarmed self defense threat assessment and containment tactics just to name a few should be mandatory.

  63. They are only trained to do their real job, not the pretend job they market to the public. They are off-the-books tax collectors. Their entire job is to raise revenue for the city or state without having to raise real taxes. They focus on the most profitable crime by dealing only with people who cannot defend themselves in court, and those they assume will generate late fees and non-payment fines.

  64. I don’t want to contradict what you’re saying but just want people to know that the entire police force(across the US) has access to military grade weapons but according to recent numbers only up to 25% of police officers are military veterans/ military background; realistically that’s barely a fourth of the entire police force across the US.

  65. "most"? By what statistic? Nationally? I live in a small town and know a colleague that joined the police Force voluntarily and now has a regular patrol with very limited training.

  66. A training officer who imparts their own fucked up mental state of being part of an occupying force with death lurking behind every interaction on their trainees.


  68. I know it takes a certain personality to be a cop, but I never really correlated it to being pro-gun. If I was a cop, I would be extremely anti-gun. Weird world.

  69. The general concept was to reinforce other options that would benefit society. In the past, investing in police departments didn't equate to better training. Your statement seems to be a gross oversimplification.

  70. “Defund the police” means “reallocate police funding to public services which would both benefit the community and decrease workload on police” but that isn’t as catchy

  71. Crime rates drop when social programs/healthcare/education are invested in and people are taken care of. Why waste money with doubling down on police when you can attack the source of what creates most criminals to begin with?

  72. Its crazy when you compare that to other first responder careers such as EMS where a Paramedic has to do two years of school plus regular recertification class hours.

  73. I'm amazed your average cop can make it through 5 months... they don't tend to attract the best and brightest...

  74. Police should be required to take a four year bachelors degree in law enforcement/social work before going out on the street.

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