Zelensky: Macron offered concessions on Ukraine's sovereignty to help Putin save face.

  1. Zelensky in an interview with Italian TV Rai1 has confirmed that Macron had proposed him to make concessions to Ukraine's sovereignty in order to come up with a face-saving option for Putin. "We are not ready to lose territory to save something for somebody" - added Zelensky

  2. How about Russia/Putin leave Ukraine, release and deliver all detained citizens of Ukraine currently held in Russia and leave Crimea!

  3. In negotiations you need to know what one’s position is. What are you willing to do to end the war? So he asked. Obviously this makes Macron look bad, Zelenskyy probably at this point not happy with France I guess. Surely Macron left knowing the answer was not an inch.

  4. He can have Corsica. Astounding sea, warm climate, wine and cheese way better than Crimea.

  5. That's giving away the birth place of the 2nd most competent French general in history. There would be almost nothing but a white flag left in the French military museum.

  6. As a French it made me laugh, I love how our two countries are now so friendly! Being able to sincerely laugh about those dark times in our shared history is a precious thing.

  7. Isn't it past time to trade Alsace Lorraine for a couple of decades before switching it once again? 😉

  8. Fuck Macron. I appreciate France but the time to appease Russia is gone. It's time they suffer defeat. They launched a terrorist attack on the UK and this is payback.

  9. Fun fact: there is a metro stop named Stalingrad in Paris. Maybe that would fit right here.

  10. Well, you know... History tells us that appeasement was a real success story for France and the UK back when we (Germans) were the bad guys, so of course he now wants to try to repeat that huge, raging success! What could ever go wrong? Hmm? You mean there was more history after 1938? Aww, shucks!

  11. TBF, the French Army has always been fairly successful.... when it's not led by a Frenchman. So maybe they realise putting a Kraut in charge is their only hope of having military power.

  12. Some of these western leaders don’t get it… appeasement does not fucking work with these strongman, authoritarian type regimes like Putin. The West has been appeasing Russia/Putin for decades, and all it has done is led Putin to believe the West is weak and emboldened him to invade his neighbors.

  13. Zelenskyy doesn't give in to demands and bullying. That's exactly why he has my undying respect. This is how you handle bullies, by not backing down even a single bit.

  14. As an Eastern European, I can say that they have been acting like this in the last 30 years

  15. France and Germany have basically been trying to turn Ukraine into BiH for the past several years in the Minsk negotiations. They never went anywhere and the Russians did nothing but push.

  16. He didn't. He asked the question to figure out where each sides limits were. Macron wouldn't have had the right to tell Russia that Ukraines terms were Russia must leave Donbas and Crimea either. Not without checking with Ukraine first.

  17. I mean it's important to see where Putin is willing to negotiate. If Macron offered him part of Ukraine and Putin said yes, we would know that Putin wants this war over but just can't since he hasn't gained any goals. If Putin still said no, we would know that his ambitions are greater or worse - he is somehow winning a longer game or thinking he is winning

  18. Or maybe Macron can offer Putin a part of France to help to save face of his buddy ? Why not ? How you can negotiate like that being a president supposed a leading European country ?

  19. Yeah, give Putler Marseille, he needs a warm port. Macaron is a weakling. After all, most French had a hard time deciding between him and a neo-Nazi pigwoman. I think that says it all.

  20. As a French in Paris, our Media tells that Macron never talked to Putin in the behalf of Zelensky on this matter. Only have spoken to Zelensky in 1 to 1 meeting about that. So don't pay attention to this for now, nothing that deserve alerting for now.

  21. We'd gladly offer Putin Corsica don't worry. Only problem is that he'd want to give it back after a week :-/

  22. That's why his every call with Putin lead to an escalation. Dictators and bullies see this as a weakness and it emboldens them to be more aggressive. To Putin this shows Macron is ready to give him something so logically expects to gain more if he does more of what he is doing.

  23. Putin humilated Macron by making him sit at the opposite end of that long table, yet Macron still wants to suck up to him!

  24. I think appeasement has shown itself to be a poisonous strategy in the past… or did idiot Mac skipped all the history lessons?

  25. The only reason Macron won the election is because le pen is a fucking lunatic. Most French people hate him. Its getting like the US, you choose from the least shitty of 2 bad options.

  26. We'd gladly offer Putin Corsica don't worry. Only problem is that he'd want to give it back after a week :-/

  27. Wait no let’s go and invade another country, bomb it to shit, come into cities and rape and pillage , murder innocent people, cause so much grief so much hate, so many broken families, so much that went into this… but no we have to save putins face… the only thing he needs to be saved with is his ugly fucking face to the curb.

  28. How France ended up with such candidates for Presidents as Macron and Le Pen. Seems French people totally lost their hand in government

  29. Marcon I a complete asshole for thinking he can say this. Offer a piece of France instead! Or is Ukraines sovereignty less important to him.

  30. I’m sorry, is he offering up pieces of France? Otherwise we don’t want another useless Minsk agreement you set up last time

  31. I'm sure there are a few of others worth talking to. Finland may have some understanding of the issues involved with a long frontier with Russia ?

  32. I'm French, therefore highly interested... but can't seem to find track of this news except in this post. Can someone help?

  33. Since when American fatasses need sources to recycle their "cheesing eating surrender monkey" nonsense?

  34. Yeah don't worry as I said we'd gladly offer Putin Corsica don't worry. Only problem is that he'd want to give it back after a week :-/

  35. Inflamatory and misleading title from an article that didn't bother to translate accurately what was said by either zelensky and macron. Macron never asked Zelensky to give away any Ukrainian territories, everyone in this sub need to chill and speak with facts no with emotions. The Kiev independent need to cut the propaganda

  36. For all the dense motherfuckers here, where did you get that Macron asked Ukraine to give away territory ? cut the shit, all what was said is that at some point diplomatic concession will have to be made to settle durable peace. It doesn't mean that should not be defeated and kicked out of Ukrainian land, and Macron literally said 5 days ago that before anything, russia should be defeated. There is complete speculation of what was being said.

  37. If you have any sense It’s got to be worth trying to avoid a war but Chamberlain was a idiot and thought he could negotiate with a Tyrant, but Chamberlain did have the balls to declare war on Germany, I can’t see macron ever being enough of a leader to do such a thing, even now with all of the sanctioned killing of innocent civilians and all the proof of genocide behaviour he still wants to reward Putin. The pair of them probably give each other hand jobs instead of handshakes when ever they meet face to face, god only knows what must go on in there secret Zoom meetings

  38. Nice French bashing from The Kyiv Independent, it's a clear click bait and you guys fell for it, but you want to find other enemies, Russia is not enough, you want more, you want blood ... you'll come back tomorrow for Germany bashing, or maybe it will be the turn of Turkey.

  39. As far as I can see what Macron did was probe Zelensky as to what the red lines were and if he would be willing to cede territory in a peace settlement.

  40. What the actual fuck is this malarkey and insanity?! Give an exit to a war criminal? Not to mention all the shit around the world that happened on behest of that bunker leprognome. Bunkum and balderdash! Fuck exits, Hague awaits!

  41. How did France end up with a choice between those two idiots? If Russia bombed France Macron would be trying to use words to intercept the missiles. Impotent.

  42. If Russia bombed France, Macaroni would follow the standard French doctrine as described in 'French Tactics 101: Surrender signals and you'.

  43. Macron should offer the French Riviera, since a lot of it is already bought up by russian oligarchs.

  44. This guy is garbage. Also France has not participate a lot in the military help. France is the 1st army in EU, what a shame. 0,3% of the budget.... Some baltric country participate more than 33%.

  45. Putin fatefully cast the die. Russo/Western relations will never be the same. I like Macron but he isn’t seeing the bigger picture. There is no going back. So long as Russians fail to demonstrate rule by the people they will continue to be a nation of isolated sheep. Suckin on 40s of vodka and enjoying whatever muck they’ve eaten for centuries.

  46. Any concessions now would only embolden Russia. Macron should know how well appeasement works against tyrants. After all, France was humiliated by another tyrant a few decades ago.

  47. Huh.... I don't want another Munich agreement. If France wants to, it can give up its own territory to Russia.

  48. When will Western European leaders learn that Ukraine’s sovereignty is not Western Europeans’s to bargain with? When will Western Europeans learn that they learn that they are in fact strong enough to hold off Russian aggression with relatively little investment, and the only real cost being the hypocritical and self righteous attitude that defense is immoral. The rules based bubble in which they live is a good thing, but it must be defended, and it isn’t foolish or wrong for the Ukrainians to want to be a part. For Macron to draw arbitrary lines over which Europeans can be part of the peaceful rules based system and which must be left to the mercy of despots IS immoral.

  49. France has been in an historically unusual military slump. Historically France has won more battles than anyone else. Their recent performance has been far below their historical average.

  50. Macron always has been a cunt acting for himself only. Right the way through COVID he was the biggest vaccine nationalist of any country. Better than Le Pen though.

  51. Tell that prick Macron he'll succeed a corridor into western Europe for Russian rapist troops. Both my grandparents had return trips to France to help them, they can't return the favour.

  52. Where are all these French/German apologists now? They’ve been calling me a “shill” for criticizing Macron. Now we have a confirmation that he actually pressured Ukraine into surrendering. I’m pretty sure that Scholz attempted the same trick to keep that gas flowing. The EU has to move away from the Franco-German leadership model. We need Eastern European countries to play a more prominent role.

  53. I don't see it. The eastern European countries are definitely a mixed bunch. The fact that many were more wary of Russia before, and now can see more clearly in this specific issue doesn't make them moral leaders for everything else. As a matter of fact door everything else most of them are rather lacking.

  54. lol you guys still mad because 20 years ago we refused to help you do in Iraq what the russians are doing now in Ukraine. Have you found those WMD yet?

  55. Please tell me when the US didn't surrender this last half century... Oh wait you probably call that "tactical retreat". Only things US is good at is waging war by proxy (a bit like in Ukraine actually).

  56. Bit weird for Macron or weird headline .. it’s like he thinks he is somehow a representative of Ukraine .

  57. The entire French elite come from only two schools in Paris and one University. Thats fench diversity. I think you need to take the same route to understand this kind of logic.

  58. I don't understand Macron. Sometimes he's so supportive, but sometimes not. There's something wrong about him

  59. Does Putin have some compromising photos of naked Macron in a pool full of hookers? Or nude photos of his wife? Why is Macron being such a lap dog to Putin all the time? It’s like he’s looking for every possible way to help his mate get out of this situation and pretend to be the saviour of the world. What a spineless creature.

  60. macron behaves like a russian agent, sholts treat him like he deserves respect, only big european leader acting as expected is boris johnson

  61. Cue Macron's next infantile withdrawal of the French ambassador, his usual response to attacks on his prestige (Italy, Turkey, USA, Australia).

  62. Its not a popular move but a smart one. Not conceding, but figuring out what Russia would take in a concession. If anything its to gauge Russia's ambitions on what territory they think they can actually hold, and with what resources. This also is a test of Ukraine's measure of what territory it can take back. Yes we are all vastly impressed with Ukraine's prowess but remember prior to the war there was much sentiment that Ukraine would have fallen by now. The resistance is very costly and the question of concession must be strategically considered regardless of how unpopular.

  63. I think their alternative was a literal Russian puppet unfortunately. Lack of options is a terrible thing.

  64. At first when I saw this on another post, I reported it because I thought it was trolling misinformation. It seems *I* was the one who was misinformed!

  65. “Save face” what kind of bullshit is that. Putin will save his face even when he loses the war, there’s no doubt about that. Whoever thinks feeding the monster is at all good needs to look at the not-so-distant past. It doesn’t stop anything. Only makes the gains cheap and incentivizes to try again.

  66. Part of being the go between is checking with each side what the terms are. Macron asked the question, he didn't try to make a decision for Ukraine.

  67. Didn’t France learn anything from the last time they tried to appease a dictator? And this is the person that wants to run a centralized European army?

  68. Jesus Christ, I don't remember the names of most politicians (Can barely remember American ones) so I assumed Macron was a member of Putin's cabinet or something.

  69. Maybe he could offer something from France. That would be fantastic gift to Putin. No?

  70. Why would you make concessions to the murderers on your doorstep who appear to be going in reverse? Fuck Russia & fuck Macron.

  71. This Macron asshole is really pissing me off. Pick a fucking lane, pussy. One day he’s backing Ukraine. The next day he’s a Russian apologist. He of all people should know what conceding land to a murderous dictator leads to. He’s totally living up to the “The French are cheese-eatin’ surrender monkeys” stereotype.

  72. Woooowww what a fucking pussy. This is literally appeasement. Appeasement doesn't fucking work!!!! They already tried it with Crimea and here we are 8 years later!!!!! They tried it with Hitler 75+ years ago and it didn't fucking work! Fuck Macron.

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